Cut scenes from pilot?

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Gleeps, it's Batman
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Cut scenes from pilot?

Post by Gleeps, it's Batman » Sat Feb 15, 2014 12:06 pm

Dragging this over from another thread:
batsman wrote:
Since we're talking about the pilot, what's been cut from the broadcast version?

Some fans say there are scenes that haven't been shown since the first broadcast, what were those besides the next week bumpers?
I'd be curious as to what's missing also. I did comparisons between MeTV and the youtube versions for a few episodes, but I'm afraid the pilot wasn't one of them, and MeTV skipped airing the pilot during this go-around, so I don't have it to compare to TVLand or whatever else was on youtube. MeTV seems to cut the least amount of all the channels, if you don't mind sped up batfights and occasionally the theme music. I also remember them speeding up parts of Chad and Jeremy's last song.

Actually, your question really asked what hasn't been shown since the first broadcast. I'd *really* be curious if anyone knows the answer to that since I assume we all saw the show as kids and wouldn't remember something we saw one time only, unless it was something totally shocking. It seems the Dozier narration in the beginning of the pilot has been pretty much forgotten also since it likely wasn't shown with most reruns. I personally saw the episodes in the mid-70s, and even then I'm sure there were cut scenes. I seem to think I remember noticing things in the second night recap that we had not seen in part 1, so that would prove right there that the 70s versions had some cuts. Unfortunately there are many more cuts nowadays because of the increase in commercial time. One example would be 3 whole minutes missing from That Darn Catwoman in the TVLand version that *did* air on MeTV, and the little Batcave romance piece in Scat Darn Catwoman that aired on MeTV but not on TVLand (or whatever channel was uploaded to youtube.) Though even MeTV cut Lesley Gore's second song which I did see intact in the 70s since there was less commercial time back then. It was the only thing I really remembered from the 70s and noticed immediately, even after 35 years, that it was missing when I found Batman again on MeTV about a year and a half ago.

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Re: Cut scenes from pilot?

Post by Batfanman » Sat Feb 15, 2014 2:54 pm

I have a theory that the scene where Riddler has captured Robin and is going to make a mask of his face was shot a couple of different ways. The one we didn't see actually has Riddler un-masking Robin. Don't know how they would have dealt with it further beyond that but having seen a photo of an unmasked Robin confronting Riddler (Batmania book, I believe) and reading through some of the documents over at Bat TV archives, it may be that there were some re-writes of this part of the episode.
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Re: Cut scenes from pilot?

Post by Gleeps, it's Batman » Sat Feb 15, 2014 3:53 pm

Interesting. I haven't seen the Batmania book or that picture. Could it be a rehearsal picture where Burt didn't have the mask on? I don't know how they'd deal with an unmasking other than that Dick is just some high school kid that The Riddler wouldn't necessarily recognize. I doesn't make sense, though, to make a mold of his face with the mask on.

I always thought the part with taking Molly to the Batcave was kind of a plot hole. If they hadn't killed her off, she would know the location of the Batcave. They'd have had to have invented the Batnesia gas much sooner than they did. Actually, what was the first appearance of the Batnesia gas? I'm remembering it from when Batman told Alfred to take King Tut's men topside and deposit them on the lawn and they wouldn't remember a thing of what they'd seen in the Batcave (a lot of lifting for poor Alfred to do <g>) but had it been used before that? I've only seen most of the episodes once so far since I've discovered the show again, so I'm sure I could easily be forgetting it being used at another time.

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Re: Cut scenes from pilot?

Post by Jaws63 » Sat Feb 15, 2014 4:58 pm

As pointed out on another "cut scenes" thread we had, there is a scene where Riddler and the gang are all going down into the manhole just as someone is walking past. The camera shot only shows the persons shoes, and doesn't notice the manhole being covered beneath his feet. This scene I believe comes somewhere between when one of Riddler's gang members teases Molly about fitting in the manhole and the narration of "what are the fiendish Riddler and the molehill mob up to now", this a cut. One of those batless batspins was edited in...in place of this cut scene.

The added scene I just mentioned was there in this shows earliest run of syndication and I'm sure was there on this shows very first broadcast, it wasn't until 89(when Family channel aired Batman) that I started noticing major cuts and edits in the episodes.

One point worthy of interest, I own one of those Bootleg master set's(they say they are uncut episodes and they are not)...and I swear these have been what"s been broadcast since 89(maybe even before).

As far as the very first airing, I'm old enough to have been around to watch it, but not remember. I believe it was here in this forum that I learned that there was no "next week bumper" for Penguin at the end of this episode, and those "in color cards" we see at the beginning of each episode, didn't really start until the first Mr. Freeze episode.

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Re: Cut scenes from pilot?

Post by Batfanman » Sat Feb 15, 2014 5:04 pm

When I first saw the picture in the Batmania book years ago, my eventual deduction was that it must be a rehearsal outtake photo. But, after having read a memo (either to or from Dozier) on the Bat TV archives site http://www.batmantelevisionseries.com/ (you'll have to search for it) there is talk of how to best deal with this scene and how logically Riddler would probably un-mask him. So that's why and where I get my thoughts on this. Would make a good question for Burt.
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Re: Cut scenes from pilot?

Post by logar2 » Sat Feb 15, 2014 5:24 pm

If you look on ebay now, there are several photos of Burt and Frank from this scene and Burt is unmasked in most of them. To me it would make more sense that these were taken during rehearsals for the scene and not during the actual filming of it. I know the memo you're referring to and it makes a good point in that it would be easier for Riddler to unmask Robin while he holds him captive. But doing so would make any episodes following the pilot with Riddler in them difficult to write if he knew Robin's identity and I don't think Dozier wanted to put the production behind the eight ball right out of the gate. Riddler would have to be killed off to make this work and clearly that wasn't going to happen.

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Re: Cut scenes from pilot?

Post by Gleeps, it's Batman » Sat Feb 15, 2014 5:51 pm

Batfanman wrote:I have a theory that the scene where Riddler has captured Robin and is going to make a mask of his face was shot a couple of different ways. The one we didn't see actually has Riddler un-masking Robin. Don't know how they would have dealt with it further beyond that but having seen a photo of an unmasked Robin confronting Riddler (Batmania book, I believe) and reading through some of the documents over at Bat TV archives, it may be that there were some re-writes of this part of the episode.
If it's the memo from ABC to Dozier (scan 208.jpg) that you're referring to, I just read it, and it sounds to me like the script already had a non-unmasking, and ABC just wanted them to explain to the audience why The Riddler would not do what every criminal wanted to do: unmask them.

Which now makes me wonder: The Riddler's lawsuit would have rendered them unable to fight crime anymore if they were forced to reveal their true identities, so why go through with the whole plot of getting Molly into the Batcave to shoot Batman? I'm sure a ton of criminals would have made sure Bruce and Dick were dead once they found out through the lawsuit who Batman and Robin really were. I know, I know, there'd be no show then <g> Not to mention it was much more fun for The Riddler to plot out a way to murder Batman than to just take him to court.

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Re: Cut scenes from pilot?

Post by Riddlersgurl » Sat Feb 15, 2014 6:15 pm

I kind of thought that if he were to actually unmask them, then he'd have no real reason to commit crime anymore.

He wants a worthy opponent to challenge his intellect, and Batman is the ONLY one capable of it. Sure, the regular cops are all right at other types of crime, but up against a supervillain? They haven't got it.

He didn't really have any inclination to follow through with the law suit, I think, he just wanted Batman to sweat it out while he committed his crime of the week.

But what in the HECK were the writer's thinking with him wanting to steal a wooly mammoth carcass filled with vintage postage stamps?

They're too hard to get rid of, even on the black market, and he'd never get the full value of them. Not unless he ran into a REALLY rich collector.

He'd have been better off stealing all of the jewelry and wallets from the patrons. And even THEN, he'd have to dismantle all of the jewelry, melt down the precious metal, and then fence the stuff in another state.

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Re: Cut scenes from pilot?

Post by Gleeps, it's Batman » Sat Feb 15, 2014 6:20 pm

Riddlersgurl wrote:I kind of thought that if he were to actually unmask them, then he'd have no real reason to commit crime anymore.

He wants a worthy opponent to challenge his intellect, and Batman is the ONLY one capable of it. Sure, the regular cops are all right at other types of crime, but up against a supervillain? They haven't got it.

He didn't really have any inclination to follow through with the law suit, I think, he just wanted Batman to sweat it out while he committed his crime of the week.
But then why set it up for Molly to fill Batman full of holes? That also leaves him with no worthy opponent.

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Re: Cut scenes from pilot?

Post by Jaws63 » Sat Feb 15, 2014 6:42 pm

Perhaps we are suppose to interpret the actions of these criminals as spontaneous rather than organized, Riddler might just be this "toy with Batman" villain who has no rhyme or reason. Molly...pulling out the gun at Batman was out of impulse, and not part of Riddler's plan(Riddler's plan was to infiltrate B&R's partnership which might make sense to do if he's planning on suing them).

It might be simpler to understand this episode, if we are to think that Riddler and the gang didn't unmask Robin, as Riddler had only planned to hold Robin for a short time...return him home and go forth with his lawsuit(they were going to be unmasked anyways). I'm sure there are some holes in this idea too, but clearly every single arch enemy had their chance to unmask the duo and never did.

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Re: Cut scenes from pilot?

Post by Gleeps, it's Batman » Sat Feb 15, 2014 10:07 pm

Jaws63 wrote:As pointed out on another "cut scenes" thread we had, there is a scene where Riddler and the gang are all going down into the manhole just as someone is walking past. The camera shot only shows the persons shoes, and doesn't notice the manhole being covered beneath his feet. This scene I believe comes somewhere between when one of Riddler's gang members teases Molly about fitting in the manhole and the narration of "what are the fiendish Riddler and the molehill mob up to now", this a cut. One of those batless batspins was edited in...in place of this cut scene.
I remember when you said this a few months back, and the more I think about it, the more I think I might actually remember seeing that manhole scene with the shoes in the 70s. Too bad we didn't have VCRs back then. I only remember making audio tapes of a couple of whole episodes, and wasn't able to find my stash of Batman stuff if it's still around anywhere. :( Pretty sure this wasn't one of the episodes I audiotaped, though, and even if I had, it wouldn't help much with the manhole scene.

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Re: Cut scenes from pilot?

Post by batsman » Sat Feb 15, 2014 11:02 pm

Gleeps, it's Batman wrote:
Jaws63 wrote:As pointed out on another "cut scenes" thread we had, there is a scene where Riddler and the gang are all going down into the manhole just as someone is walking past. The camera shot only shows the persons shoes, and doesn't notice the manhole being covered beneath his feet. This scene I believe comes somewhere between when one of Riddler's gang members teases Molly about fitting in the manhole and the narration of "what are the fiendish Riddler and the molehill mob up to now", this a cut. One of those batless batspins was edited in...in place of this cut scene.
I remember when you said this a few months back, and the more I think about it, the more I think I might actually remember seeing that manhole scene with the shoes in the 70s. Too bad we didn't have VCRs back then. I only remember making audio tapes of a couple of whole episodes, and wasn't able to find my stash of Batman stuff if it's still around anywhere. :( Pretty sure this wasn't one of the episodes I audiotaped, though, and even if I had, it wouldn't help much with the manhole scene.
Has anyone actually seen this scene and does anyone have it? That would be interesting to see.

There's also a cut and transition during the first Bat-Climb, is there anything missing?

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Re: Cut scenes from pilot?

Post by Jaws63 » Sun Feb 16, 2014 7:13 am

There is something else you should be aware of that (maybe0 on this official release.

Let me tell you a story:

I started doing the audio recordings of Batman off our local channel in 1975, I was 12 years old at the time. one of the things I personally added was my own voice saying the fight words in the fight scenes, I went further and tried to say the fight words that appeared in the animated intro. Now back then I had a speech impediment, I would stutter on words that began "P", "K", and "B". I went to a speech therapist who geniusly made up flash-cards of all the bat-fight words that appeared on the series...didn't really work. It wasn't until after I was married with two kids that I finally over came the stuttering problem.

The reason I bring this up(and I brought this up when I first registered in this forum in 2006 as ja_stilwell) that I wonder if there is an alternate intro. Well, what I mean to say is that I wonder if there is another animated intro(Identical with the one were used to) only difference being is that the fight words are slightly altered. The animated intro that's used in my masters set and what's been in broadcast since 89(and maybe prior to this) is we see "chronologically speaking" Batman's "Sock" Robin's "Pow" and Batman's "Zok". I thought remembered it differently(Hell I was saying those words, or trying to...umpteenth hundred times), I thought it was Batamn's "Kapow" Robin's "Biff" and Batman's "Ouch". The last three Fightwords I thought were "Sock", "Bam", "Ooof".

I know, this all sounds corny...but will have to wait and see what the final result will be.

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Re: Cut scenes from pilot?

Post by Jaws63 » Tue Feb 18, 2014 9:20 am

Gleeps, it's Batman wrote: They'd have had to have invented the Batnesia gas much sooner than they did. Actually, what was the first appearance of the Batnesia gas? I'm remembering it from when Batman told Alfred to take King Tut's men topside and deposit them on the lawn and they wouldn't remember a thing of what they'd seen in the Batcave (a lot of lifting for poor Alfred to do <g>) but had it been used before that? I've only seen most of the episodes once so far since I've discovered the show again, so I'm sure I could easily be forgetting it being used at another time.
LOL!!! Now this is actually funny, "Unkindest Tut of all" was the first appearance with the Bat-nesia gas...this was what? fourth to the series finally. I'm also with you here though, I think my memory was playing tricks with me, both the commissioner and Pauline were in the batcave after taking the what was known as "Batgas". Batman actually makes the point that he needed a witness to show his "ethical practices"(notice how I quoted this), I sorta thought the extraction of Paulines confession WAS unconventional and if the commissioner remembered being in the batcave it would also stand to reason Pauline would have remembered being in the batcave. Seems to me Batman's coutroom logic is slightly backwards.

In the case of Lidia Limpet, she merely had no Idea she was ever in the batcave, I believe the primary function of the batgas was that of a sleeping agent....just gas I tell ya.

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Re: Cut scenes from pilot?

Post by Jaws63 » Tue Feb 18, 2014 9:28 am

Sorry to go off topic in my last post....so please no jokes about the batgas in the cuts thread.

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