Is the Tim Burton Batman on it's Way to Being Forgotten

General goings on in the 1966 Batman World

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bat lugosi
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Re: Is the Tim Burton Batman on it's Way to Being Forgotten

Post by bat lugosi »

I'm certainly in the minority here haha, I also enjoyed Batman Returns.

My problem with Batman Returns is that once again Batman doesn't have much to do though I think Keaton does get a bit more screen time here, but the biggest problem I have is that Commissioner Gordon has almost zero to do, he shows up in maybe a few scenes, and has barely any interaction with Batman, that really bugs me.

I'm not going to get into The Penguin, I love this version and I know most don't, but I will say that I think this is the best interpretation of the Bat - Cat relationship outside of the comics. I enjoyed The Dark Knight Rises but I don't think they pulled that off as well, or at least I don't think the chemistry was as good.

Though I enjoyed Burton's take for the most part, Schumacher loses me: Batman Forever to me is just barely ok, and of course, Batman & Robin is terrible.

Here is the order I see things in:

1. Batman: 66 series
2. The Dark Knight
3. Batman: The Animated Series
4. Batman Returns
5. Batman (89)
6. The Dark Knight Rises
7. Batman: The Movie (66)
8. Batman Begins
9. Batman: Mask of the Phantasm ( animated )
10. Batman Forever

And I'm not sure after that, while I enjoy some of the other animated shows and movies they don't stay with me very long.

I don't necessarily rate according to quality though, I recognize Burton's Batman movies are flawed. I rate according to how much fun I had viewing a movie mixed with some nostalgia I suppose. For example when comparing 'Alien' (1979 ) and 'Aliens' (1986) I look at 'Alien' as perhaps the superior film, but Aliens IMO is much more fun to watch.
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Progress Pigment
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Re: Is the Tim Burton Batman on it's Way to Being Forgotten

Post by Progress Pigment »

Yes, happily. Not only has the 60's Batman eclipsed it, but even 'Batman The Animated Series' is 10 times more popular & well regarded than the Burton Batman. Which is indeed poetic justice. :) After the '89 film came out huge, that version became THE live-action Batman, taking over for the old show. (Constant commercials, Burger King, OnStar, all that) DC then buried anything to do with the 60's Batman, (which really they'd been doing since the early 70's) and really, any incarnation of Batman besides it, and the first year or so of Bob Kane's (Bill Fingers', Jerry Robinson, others) interpretation, which DC & fans at the time considered adequately "dark", and the movie was a return to Kane's original vision. Which was moronic.

Now the fans who cling to the Burton/Keaton's Batman over all else, have become the grumpy short-sighted old fogeys that we, the '66 Batman fans were seen to be in 1989! Young comics fans love and respect the old series. Ever watch 'The Big Bang Theory'? The characters on the show don't make fun of the old show, they adore it, and it's mentioned often. In one episode they explained how they got lost downtown, following a guy they thought looked like Adam West. :)

I've never once heard them mention Keaton or the 1990's Batman, (Sheldon did say Michelle Phiffer was his third favorite Catwoman, then remembered Lee Meriwether, and changed Phiffer to forth.) and if they did, it would probably be with derision. The quote I see a lot, even from people that enjoyed the films, is that it was obvious that neither Tim Burton or Joel Shumacher had read a comic book in their lives. We know Bill Dozier at least read a few on a plane! Anyway, NICE time to be a classic Batman fan.
Next week, the Dynamic Duo meets the Clock King!
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RetroBat
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Re: Is the Tim Burton Batman on it's Way to Being Forgotten

Post by RetroBat »

I believe one of the reasons why the tv show remained so popular is it was faithful to the comic book at that time. Also, many of the actors did a good job in their roles of the characters regardless of the quality of some of the scripts. IMHO, Adam West played the best Batman of all the actors in the past few decades.
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BatmiteReturns
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Re: Is the Tim Burton Batman on it's Way to Being Forgotten

Post by BatmiteReturns »

The first Batman was my favorite followed by *gasp* Batman Forever. Batman Returns was a decent movie but it really was just a Tim Burton movie that happened to have Batman in it. DC/WB gave Burton free reign (unlike the first movie) to do what he wanted and we all saw the results.

Like the previous poster I like all incarnations of Batman and the first one was great. Batman Forever is 2nd because it has better action/fighting scenes than Burton couldn't pull off. I hated the stupid one-liners but they weren't as bad as Batman & Robin.

A Bat credit card? Never leave the cave without it?

Holy vomit bags Batman.
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Lord Death Man
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Re: Is the Tim Burton Batman on it's Way to Being Forgotten

Post by Lord Death Man »

BatmiteReturns wrote:The first Batman was my favorite followed by *gasp* Batman Forever.
Do not feel bad. I liked the follow-up 'Batman and Robin'. :D
He flies and fights-BATMAN!
Purity and virtue-BATMAN!
Cowards run away!
Batman saves the day!
Also, Boy Wonder Robin.
Batman and Robin-caped crusaders at night!
BIFF! POW! BAM! BATMAN!
Sol
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Re: Is the Tim Burton Batman on it's Way to Being Forgotten

Post by Sol »

Though the movies are flawed, the expressionistic stylings of Tim Burton's Batman pictures are lost on the contemporary audience, who don't understand the complex ability to appreciate a film on more than one level. Our pretentious youth confuse the adolescent insistance on "reality" as being more sophisticated, when it's actually the opposite.
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Progress Pigment
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Re: Is the Tim Burton Batman on it's Way to Being Forgotten

Post by Progress Pigment »

Sol wrote:Though the movies are flawed, the expressionistic stylings of Tim Burton's Batman pictures are lost on the contemporary audience, who don't understand the complex ability to appreciate a film on more than one level. Our pretentious youth confuse the adolescent insistance on "reality" as being more sophisticated, when it's actually the opposite.
But that's just it, you've explained it brilliantly. The complexities of the 1966 Batman series were lost on the fans of the vapid 2 hour 1989 Toy commercial that Tim Burton produced, and the incredible pathos of 'The Dark Knight Rises' will be lost on the audience of the new Ben Affleck poo fest. I guess. It's the way of things.
Next week, the Dynamic Duo meets the Clock King!
robinboyblunderer
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Re: Is the Tim Burton Batman on it's Way to Being Forgotten

Post by robinboyblunderer »

I don't know, I think you may be underestimating modern audiences. Regarding Burton's films, the visual style and set design were the best things, but that there wasn't much else going on in these films.
Jaws63
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Re: Is the Tim Burton Batman on it's Way to Being Forgotten

Post by Jaws63 »

If there is any saving grace to these films, it's Michael Keaton. I lost my Daughter 4yrs ago to suicide, but one of my fondest memories of her was her crush on Michael Keaton. We used to have our Bat-movie marathon of our own beginning with "Batman 89", "Batman returns", "Batman forever", and "Batman and Robin" every Thanksgiving weekend.

Keaton played in two out 4 of this series of movies, and he took an interesting take on Bruce/Batman...looking at these films in retrospect, personally I thought he was better than Kilmer or Clooney. Keaton was so different from what we would expect him to be, it would be hard to forget him.
robinboyblunderer
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Re: Is the Tim Burton Batman on it's Way to Being Forgotten

Post by robinboyblunderer »

I'm sorry about your daughter.

I'm glad you were able to enjoy the movies together and I agree, Keaton did a really great job as Batman, it was a very unique performance and it woul've been interesting to see him act alongside Chris O'Donnell, whom I think did a really good job as Robin as well.
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John Mack
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Re: Is the Tim Burton Batman on it's Way to Being Forgotten

Post by John Mack »

I think Batman goes in cycles. The country needs a bright, good feeling Batman right now. Kinda like after JFK. So, not so much forgotten as put aside for now. Now it's our Batman's turn once again.
Music. BAT! Music.
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Progress Pigment
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Re: Is the Tim Burton Batman on it's Way to Being Forgotten

Post by Progress Pigment »

robinboyblunderer wrote:I'm sorry about your daughter.

I'm glad you were able to enjoy the movies together and I agree, Keaton did a really great job as Batman, it was a very unique performance and it woul've been interesting to see him act alongside Chris O'Donnell, whom I think did a really good job as Robin as well.
I'm very sorry for your loss. Yes, for what he was given to do, he did really well. Keaton managed to give Bruce Wayne a lot of gravity. His interpretation fit the time period very well, and put butts in seats. I liked O'Donnell too. Not sure Joseph Gordon-Levitt can (will?) do as well.
Next week, the Dynamic Duo meets the Clock King!
bat lugosi
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Re: Is the Tim Burton Batman on it's Way to Being Forgotten

Post by bat lugosi »

If I forget about Batman & Robin, and if Batman Forever had no connection to the Burton films, I think I might like it more as a stand alone movie. Part of my problem with Batman Forever is that Keaton isn't Batman, I think Val was fine but Keaton was my favorite Batman of those movies by far. Seeing Val Kilmer up there on the big screen in the Bat suit only a few years after Keaton took me out of it. The other thing that bothered me about that movie was Two-face, they made the character a Joker clone.

Like some of the others, I think O'Donnell was great as Robin, and I also agree that It's the most action packed of those movies, but there is so much to nitpick.

Were in an interesting time between The Dark Knight Trilogy and whatever Zack Snyder and Ben Affleck do with the character and I think this time belongs to Batman 66. That DVD trailer blew me away!
Jaws63
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Re: Is the Tim Burton Batman on it's Way to Being Forgotten

Post by Jaws63 »

Yes, as I said...Keaton was the best Batman in THIS bat-universe. I pointed this out once before in another thread, but(even though I liked Chris O'Donnells Robin) I thought O'Donnell and Kilmer were too close in age for this team up. Even though "Batman and Robin" was the worst of all the Batman films, I did happen to think that Clooney and O' Donnell, was much more convincing. The one saving grace for "Batman and Robin" is that George Clooney was IMO the closest(in this universe) to the comic book look of Bruce Wayne.

However, I think I read somewhere that Playing Robin may have ruined Chris O' Donnells career, and the last two movies were not masterpiece plots...and that's sad. I agree, there should have been a different angle for the Two-face origin(It was too much like Jokers). I also agree that Keaton should have played Batman in the last two movies...that would have been interesting.
elmrgraham
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Re: Is the Tim Burton Batman on it's Way to Being Forgotten

Post by elmrgraham »

Playing Robin may have ruined his movie career, however starring on NCIS Los Angeles made him a TV star.
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