Is the Tim Burton Batman on it's Way to Being Forgotten

General goings on in the 1966 Batman World

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brightknight
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Re: Is the Tim Burton Batman on it's Way to Being Forgotten

Post by brightknight »

RetroBat wrote:I believe one of the reasons why the tv show remained so popular is it was faithful to the comic book at that time. Also, many of the actors did a good job in their roles of the characters regardless of the quality of some of the scripts. IMHO, Adam West played the best Batman of all the actors in the past few decades.
I think out of all the Batman media, the 60s show has the biggest sense of adventure. It truly is unrestricted fun. Realism isn't anywhere to be seen, which people are beginning to tire of. Charm and warmth go a long way, and the 60s show has it all in spades.
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Todd Grimes
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Re: Is the Tim Burton Batman on it's Way to Being Forgotten

Post by Todd Grimes »

Don't have anything to add really other than this thread was a fascinating read! Kept me more entertained than Batman Returns! (Although I don't entirely dislike the Burton films necessarily).
Robin Holyisms
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Re: Is the Tim Burton Batman on it's Way to Being Forgotten

Post by Robin Holyisms »

There have been a few threads like this over the years, but i have always avoided them. Because i felt that a majority of the comments in those threads made the discussions a little too one-sided.

With that said i can tell you that the people over at Batman-Online.com are an exception to the rule, since they are always looking for new information about the Burtonverse Batman movies. I would compare this to how people here are always doing the same for the Batman TV Series.

In addition they also have a great interest in other Batman adaptions as well like our beloved TV Series for example.
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Progress Pigment
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Re: Is the Tim Burton Batman on it's Way to Being Forgotten

Post by Progress Pigment »

It's nice how the new breed of fans are WAY more inclusive of the series. Truthfully, I never EVER expected to see it. Kevin Smith did a very nice podcast with Adam. I this piece explains how comics fans felt about the show back then:

http://13thdimension.com/gotham-tribune ... adam-west/

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xM5orTX5yG4
Next week, the Dynamic Duo meets the Clock King!
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Yellow Oval
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Re: Is the Tim Burton Batman on it's Way to Being Forgotten

Post by Yellow Oval »

The '89 Batman will never be forgotten because Batman's popularity, like the tide, seems to ebb and flow over the years with the occasional big wave coming in to remind the general public he's still out there.

Batman's popularity was almost dead until the 1966 TV show breathed massive new life into it. The comic's changes into a more serious (but not dark and depressing like today) format kept him going as well as more TV appearances in the form of the '68 animated series, the '70s various Super Friends runs, the New Adventures in '77, and more Super Friends until 1985. All the while Batman could be found in comics, TV cartoons, and lots of merchandising, but he hadn't been "real" since going off the air in 1968. For this reason Tim Burton's 1989 Batman became legendary as Batman was virtually brought back to life for the first time in 21 years. For those of us remembering actually watching the show in it's original runs 21 years may have well as been 210 years! :shock:

For my money, Burton's two films may have been darker in tone, but they were acceptable to the Batman comic mythos. This was before Frank Miller was appointed the almighty, all-wise, and perfect 'Bob Kane the 2nd'. When Batman was still Batman. Michael Keaton Batman collectibles are still very valued and of high interest as seen on various sites such as Sideshow Collectibles or Ebay.

Joel Schumacher had ZERO ideas about Batman! He made the mistakes of 1) Trying to recreate the '60s atmosphere which, again in my opinion, was lightning in a bottle and can never be recaptured and 2) Openly sexualizing Batman too much. His films were nothing more than fiascos. Not to mention having Kilmer play such a cardboard Batman and Clooney playing a life-size bobblehead Batman didn't help matters. I found Chris O'Donnell way too mouthy, antagonistic, unlikeable, and just a bad actor all around in these films.

Chris Nolan's Batman, although making a big splash with the trilogy, was not very interesting with an 'emo' Bruce Wayne, a whiny, nagging, and unsupportive mother called "Alfred", Batman looking more like Darth Vader than Batman, and then Batman acting like James Bond complete with Lucius Fox acting as a 'Q' rip-off! The Nolan trilogy didn't contribute anything really outstanding and will only really be remembered for Heath Ledger's Joker because, as we all know, everyone loves a clown. The trilogy would have only been in the 'better-than-average' sales category with the exception that Heath Ledger catapulted the 2nd film into the stratosphere! Again, it takes a clown - and an evil one at that.

I don't see Zach Snyder's upcoming Batman making much of a ripple after opening weekend because DC and Warner have completely gone off the rails for the last 14 years or so totally forgetting the Batman mythos and character. Despite ever-declining comic sales they just refuse to "get it".

The two Burton films were the last time Batman was still "Batman". The only way they could be forgotten is if someone swings the character back around in another film. Wouldn't that be cool? To see Batman swinging between buildings on a Bat-rope from a Batarang like he used to and not some stupid grappling gun? NO MOVIE has ever done this (although the closest we got was Batman and Robin descending outside the United World Building at the closing credits of the '66 movie)! In any event, with Hollywood being the way it is in this day and age, that would more than likely mean an 'Indie Film', but we all know Warner Bros. will never accept that which leaves the Burton films quite safe in their cinematic places - especially the legendary first one back in 1989!
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SprangFan
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Re: Is the Tim Burton Batman on it's Way to Being Forgotten

Post by SprangFan »

I have to agree with Yellow Oval that for all their flaws (and there were many), the Burton films were the last screen Batman I was even moderately interested in.

Anyway, I think the fact that we're now on Page 3 of this discussion shows Burton Batman is not completely forgotten. ;)
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AndyFish
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Re: Is the Tim Burton Batman on it's Way to Being Forgotten

Post by AndyFish »

The Burton Batman's don't hold up but I don't think they'll be forgotten. To a whole generation of fans that IS Batman. Without Burton's films there's no Animated Series which is one of the best versions of Batman ever done.

I wish the first one was less stagey or if you're going to exist on four city blocks make them like a Tim Burton nightmare-- if they'd let him go loose like his Stain Boy I think we'd have a much more memorable film.

Keaton's great in it- he's the best thing about it. I loved it when it came out, I was psyched that they finally did a "serious" Batman but repeated viewings make the flaws stand out and while there is a lot of good in it there's also a good amount of bad- not Mars Attacks bad, but bad.

Burton is an interesting guy-- he's directed some of my favorite movies-- Sleepy Hollow and Ed Wood are two movies I watch a lot and some real stinkers-- the aforementioned Mars film (which was a big disappointment) and Planet of the Apes which at least had real people as apes, not a big fan of CGI because its like watching a video game.

I think the Nolan films will hold up, but Bale's performance will seem even more ridiculous than it is. He overdid it with the voice and some of the writing, while pretty solid for a comic book movie, is downright ludicrous. Harvey Dent's "be a hero or become the villain" catch phrase is SO forced and un-needed-- it's the Montana Ranch syndrome*.

I'll be curious how Ben Affleck does at Batman, and I'm hoping he doesn't do the voice. But I'm never all that excited about new movies, they are too long, too meandering, too pandering and just poorly written for the most part.

*Montana Ranch syndrome comes from The Hunt for Red October-- a good movie, but in it one of the characters starts waxing poetic about his great new life once he comes to America, which signals everyone in the theater that this guy is going to die soon. Even worse than the red shirts in Star Trek.
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SprangFan
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Re: Is the Tim Burton Batman on it's Way to Being Forgotten

Post by SprangFan »

Ah, so "Montana Ranch Syndrome" = "I've Only Got Two Weeks 'Til Retirement!" :lol:

I agree the Nolan films are undermined by Bale's flat-out ridiculous performances. Whenever fanboys drone on about how wonderfully "realistic" and "grounded" those films are, I have to bring up that stupid "Cookie Monster" voice. It's silly enough when he's yelling "SWEAR TO MEEEE!" but it's beyond comical when he chatters on at great length with the Joker at the end of "Dark Knight." At most you can say maybe two-or-three-word grunts in that voice and get away with it: "Get Down!" or "Look Out!" It's not a voice that works for extended ruminations on human nature or protracted philosophical musings.

The only Burton film I would deem completely successful is "Big Fish." It's no coincidence that it's almost completely different from anything else he ever attempted.
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Yellow Oval
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Re: Is the Tim Burton Batman on it's Way to Being Forgotten

Post by Yellow Oval »

SprangFan wrote:I agree the Nolan films are undermined by Bale's flat-out ridiculous performances. Whenever fanboys drone on about how wonderfully "realistic" and "grounded" those films are, I have to bring up that stupid "Cookie Monster" voice. It's silly enough when he's yelling "SWEAR TO MEEEE!" but it's beyond comical when he chatters on at great length with the Joker at the end of "Dark Knight." At most you can say maybe two-or-three-word grunts in that voice and get away with it: "Get Down!" or "Look Out!" It's not a voice that works for extended ruminations on human nature or protracted philosophical musings.
I can attest to SprangFan's sentiment. The voice never ceases to underwhelm me. Everyone was laughing at it in the first film so you would've thought Nolan would've clued in early on. You would've thought... Still, I can't watch that end part between Bale and Ledger without groaning at Bale's pathetic Dirty Harry imitation (or even Clint Eastwood's 'Gunny' from Heartbreak Ridge) and usually end up fast-forwarding past it.

I agree with Andy about the sets in Burton's first two films being somewhat limited and repetitive, but I found Nolan's very disappointing in the obviousness of the locations namely that Gotham was plainly Chicago in the first two flicks (not counting the Narrows set) and then glaringly rotates between New York, Chicago, and Pittsburgh in the last film. For my money, Nolan's movies are more just action flicks with a grumbling actor lumbering around in a black militarized S.W.A.T. team suit with a helmet that looks more like a sparrow bird than a bat.

I also think Burton had the better Batcave that was closer to the lore than the bland, empty, cheap-looking places Nolan established under the Manor and down at the harbor. Not inspiring in the least! And, as always, if anyone was to tell me Nolan's versions were "more realistic" that way I would once again have to remind that Batman is not real! He never was, is, or will be! To try to make him (or any comic character for that matter) more realistic is to destroy what they are in the first place.

Burton's may have been more fantasy than Nolan's, but that's where Batman belongs - in the realms of imagination.
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Progress Pigment
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Re: Is the Tim Burton Batman on it's Way to Being Forgotten

Post by Progress Pigment »

Are you saying Nolan's Batman was the hero Gotham deserved, but not the one it needed? :) I dunno, in the first Burton film Batman leveled Gotham City trying, and failing, to catch one villain. Which really kind of rankled me. Nolan's Batman, in the second & especially third film was the most inspiring & selfless Batman we've had in my opinion since ... I guess I should say Dozier's.

Bale's Batman flying off with "a bomb" to save lives was an odd parallel to Adam West's Batman running off with a "bomb" to save lives. There was a level of awe there that I don't believe Burton ever captured or even tried to. Keaton was the best thing in the films, but his Batman today seems rather self motivated. Not a lot of talk about saving Gotham, more focused on his "trauma".
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AndyFish
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Re: Is the Tim Burton Batman on it's Way to Being Forgotten

Post by AndyFish »

A good friend and fellow comic artist does a killer Bale imitation and has a routine about him ruminating that his Dad never took him fishing when he was a kid and that's why he dresses up like a bat now. I laugh just thinking about it. Bales voice should have been reigned in and I fast forward through all of his parts in the trilogy.

He was the least annoying in the last one, but it found the bomb ending very hokey. And yup, sure enough a Montana sequel moment when Alfred mentions earlier in the film that he dreams of running into a retired Bruce Wayne in an outdoor cafe someday.

Anne Hathaway was the best part of the movie,
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Spikor1982
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Re: Is the Tim Burton Batman on it's Way to Being Forgotten

Post by Spikor1982 »

Hello all, first time post here, I was a member of the old Batman forum page, and have lurked here since this one was created. Thought I'd finally join up in part due to the series finally coming out.

I have loved 1989 Batman ever since it came out. For nostalgic reasons it remains my favorite superhero film of all time. 1989 was THE summer of Batman-he was everywhere. I loved it-still do. Watched the film on its release date for it's 25th.

Keaton, the atmosphere, the 40s/80s look, Jack Napier replacing Joe Chill, I loved it all.
“It is the duty of every good citizen of Gotham City to report meeting a man from Mars in a public park."
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BatmiteReturns
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Re: Is the Tim Burton Batman on it's Way to Being Forgotten

Post by BatmiteReturns »

I thought the sets in the first Batman movie were nice. They were filmed at Pinewood Studios in England on a massive lot.

Batman Returns I thought were ridiculous. The "town square" in Gotham is roughly two streets and they keep spots repeatedly. The rooftop scenes were even more cramped. This was due to it being shot in either Mexico or California (not sure which) even though the Pinewood sets were still constructed.

I hated how there were no consistencies between the look of Gotham. Different city, different Wayne manor, different Batcave (different Batmen....)

I do love the first Batman though. Napier and Keaton knocked it out of the park. As a pure origin/trilogy story Batman Begins and The Dark Knight were nicely done. I could have done without the "aging, retired for eight years" Batman in the 3rd one that needed new knees to get around.

I want my Batman to be the young, spry, kick-butt crime fighter he always is in the comics.

I can't wait until the new one comes out. Although Batman will be older it is taking inspiration from The Dark Knight Returns.
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Progress Pigment
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Re: Is the Tim Burton Batman on it's Way to Being Forgotten

Post by Progress Pigment »

Affeck as Batman is really a hurdle for me. My least favorite actor playing my favorite fictional character? I'm just not watching it. I am really hoping it tanks 'Superman Returns' style, leaving an opening for a different actor to resurrect the character.

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Mr.Freeze
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Re: Is the Tim Burton Batman on it's Way to Being Forgotten

Post by Mr.Freeze »

BR was filmed in Burbank , I think.......
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