Newmar: Joan Collins played it too straight

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High C
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Newmar: Joan Collins played it too straight

Post by High C »

Was going through last week's Bat-press conference (thanks to BatmanBuddy2012 for the YouTube link) and found something interesting at 34:54. The audio is a bit muffled, but here's what I could glean:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g117J8tB ... e=youtu.be

Adam, Burt and Julie were asked if some guest stars didn't play it comedically enough, and Julie Newmar said that both Joan Collins and Tallulah Bankhead played it too straight. Now as far as Bankhead goes, she was near the end of her life and I don't know how much range she had at that point anyway.

But I must respectfully disagree with Julie about Joan's performance. If she had played Siren like the lovesick schoolgirl Catwoman of season 2, the character would not have worked at all, IMO. Siren was NOT a comedic character. She was a serious one and if played for laughs, she would have been a Marsha, Queen of Diamonds clone.

Just my .02. Your mileage may vary.
'I thought Siren was perfect for Joan.'--Stanley Ralph Ross, writer of 'The Wail of the Siren'

My hobbies include gazing at the Siren and doing her bidding, evil or otherwise.

'She had a devastating, hypnotic effect on all the men.'--A schoolmate describing Joan Collins at age 17
Jaws63
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Re: Newmar: Joan Collins played it too straight

Post by Jaws63 »

High C wrote:Was going through last week's Bat-press conference (thanks to BatmanBuddy2012 for the YouTube link) and found something interesting at 34:54. The audio is a bit muffled, but here's what I could glean:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g117J8tB ... e=youtu.be

Adam, Burt and Julie were asked if some guest stars didn't play it comedically enough, and Julie Newmar said that both Joan Collins and Tallulah Bankhead played it too straight. Now as far as Bankhead goes, she was near the end of her life and I don't know how much range she had at that point anyway.

But I must respectfully disagree with Julie about Joan's performance. If she had played Siren like the lovesick schoolgirl Catwoman of season 2, the character would not have worked at all, IMO. Siren was NOT a comedic character. She was a serious one and if played for laughs, she would have been a Marsha, Queen of Diamonds clone.

Just my .02. Your mileage may vary.

I too heard that comment from Julie and I " kinda" agree with you. Certainly the problem with the Siren character, was lack of backstory. Now backstory was not the writers and producers forte with the series, but from a writing and execution point of view...it would have helped.

Actually now that I think about it, in comparison to all the other villain/villainess, regulars or invented for tv...she did play it too straight(funny Julie makes this comment, she wasn't even involved in season 3 episodes...and where I prefer the serious Julie Newmar's season 1's Catwoman, the silliness of the high school crush Catwoman of season 2 fits better in the season 3 format). I think what Julie meant is that Joan Collins is a very talented actress, and could've gotten away with playing this roll, in a non-serious manner, and it still would have worked. For what it's worth, I'm glad though we got the end product we have...Siren should've been a season 1 or season 2 villainess.
elmrgraham
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Re: Newmar: Joan Collins played it too straight

Post by elmrgraham »

In my opinion,Joan Collins was excellent as The Siren.
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High C
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Re: Newmar: Joan Collins played it too straight

Post by High C »

Jaws63 wrote: I too heard that comment from Julie and I " kinda" agree with you. Certainly the problem with the Siren character, was lack of backstory. Now backstory was not the writers and producers forte with the series, but from a writing and execution point of view...it would have helped.
Agreed, and the unfortunate thing is the backstory was in the script, and was filmed:

http://www.batgirlbat-trap.com/omake/btswail.html

I think Siren played like a season 1 villain, especially with being obsessed about discovering Batman & Robin's identities.
'I thought Siren was perfect for Joan.'--Stanley Ralph Ross, writer of 'The Wail of the Siren'

My hobbies include gazing at the Siren and doing her bidding, evil or otherwise.

'She had a devastating, hypnotic effect on all the men.'--A schoolmate describing Joan Collins at age 17
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epaddon
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Re: Newmar: Joan Collins played it too straight

Post by epaddon »

As High C discovered, the original background take on Siren in the rejected first draft SRR contributed had perhaps the most "serious" back story of any Bat villain. She definitely deserved a two part story at the least (even more inexcusable was how they cut the aforementioned exposition High C mentions just to do the Batgirl song which we could have done without!)
robinboyblunderer
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Re: Newmar: Joan Collins played it too straight

Post by robinboyblunderer »

I'd have to go back and watch this episode to see if I agree with Ms. Newmar but her performance seemed fine to me.

I don't think Marsha was that campy either, I think her performance and Joan Collins' seemed about equal and right for each role.

A two-part episode with Siren placing Batgirl and Robin into a trap would've been interesting. Of course, I always thought if Siren ever reappeared, she'd want revenge on Robin for making her sing that note.
elmrgraham
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Re: Newmar: Joan Collins played it too straight

Post by elmrgraham »

I completely agree.
MithrandirOlorin
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Re: Newmar: Joan Collins played it too straight

Post by MithrandirOlorin »

If she was meant to be taken more seriously. Then I wish her Power wasn't some random High Pitched sound but actually using her real Melodic Voice to hypnotize people.

And that they hadn't made it so blatantly clear it doesn't work on Women. I hated that they did with Lorelei on SHEILD recently.
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AndyFish
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Re: Newmar: Joan Collins played it too straight

Post by AndyFish »

I don't know-- you had Olga in Season Three and she was pretty comedic, Siren's kind of understated manner was a nice change in pace. I don't agree at all about Black Widow-- I thought Bankhead did solid job on a not much character. I'd have to watch the Siren episodes again but they definitely didn't appeal to me as a kid-- then again neither did King Tut and he's my favorite now so tastes change.

I think the atmosphere of the show changed for Season Three, there was much less a sense of adventure than in the previous two.

Still, I'll take the less comedic Siren or Black Widow over The Minstrel or The Archer ANY DAY.
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BATWINGED HORNET
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Re: Newmar: Joan Collins played it too straight

Post by BATWINGED HORNET »

I disagree with Newmar on both actresses; Collins played her character in a necessary manner: she seemed to be in crime for ambitious reasons, so her personality needed to be serious, controlling and dismissive to anyone standing in her way. That was the polar opposite of the i'm-having-so-fun-with-this "dah-ling" routine of a Marsha--who was played like a bored rich person simply trying their hand at crime for kicks.

Bankhead's Black Widow was occasionally surly, but framed that behavior with a knowing, overconfident glee about her schemes--hardly the characterization as described by Newmar.

Contrary to the myth spread across the media for decades (including a few books published or authorized by DC Comics) Batman was not a comedy, or comedic characters placed in superheroic situations (ex. Hanna-Barbera's The Impossibles). There was a light edge weaving its way in the delivery, but the drive of the series was not that of the sitcom. Newmar--somehow forgetting her season 1 introduction or 2nd season return performance--is buying into the worn out myth.
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robinboyblunderer
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Re: Newmar: Joan Collins played it too straight

Post by robinboyblunderer »

My impression per Dozier interviews is that he wanted it not to be played seriously from the beginning, hence the bat labels and everything else that made it funny. I agree, it wasn't a sitcom but it was definitely played for laughs. When I think about this now, I realize that the show not only walked an incredibly fine line, it was also unique in its approach, appealing to both children and adults for different reasons. Is there another tv show that did that? Gilligan's Island and Lost in Space both occur to me, but one was a traditional sitcom and the other, a serious attempt at sci-fi that evolved into something more akin to Batman.

Batman was meant to be funny, a mixture of action and comedy, but I don't think the former outshined the latter, even in the first season.
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BATWINGED HORNET
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Re: Newmar: Joan Collins played it too straight

Post by BATWINGED HORNET »

robinboyblunderer wrote:My impression per Dozier interviews is that he wanted it not to be played seriously from the beginning, hence the bat labels and everything else that made it funny. I agree, it wasn't a sitcom but it was definitely played for laughs. When I think about this now, I realize that the show not only walked an incredibly fine line, it was also unique in its approach, appealing to both children and adults for different reasons. Is there another tv show that did that? Gilligan's Island and Lost in Space both occur to me, but one was a traditional sitcom and the other, a serious attempt at sci-fi that evolved into something more akin to Batman.

Batman was meant to be funny, a mixture of action and comedy, but I don't think the former outshined the latter, even in the first season.
However, for anyone to acknowledge the action / cliffhanger aspect and its intended effect means the series was never supposed to be what Legends of the Super Heroes would be (with Batman and Robin) 11 years later; a self-effacing comedy which happened to have superheroes as the characters.

Dozier's only attempt at a genuinely comedic superhero was his Wonder Woman presentation film, where there's no way any part of the audience would have considered Ellie Wood Walker as heroic or thrilling to any degree. She was an out-of-the-gate joke, while Adam and Burt sold the source beyond expectations.

I doubt that would have happened if the Wonder Woman approach was used on Batman from the start. On that note. I have to return to Newmar's lack of observation, since her own 1st appearance was played seriously--no overt puns (more of a wink to the audience than serving the story as in her late season 2 episodes). Furthermore, she was acting in a "hey, i'm on the hit show Batman! Time for me to ham it up!" way seen with certain guest stars--particularly during the second half of the series' run.

No one is saying the 1966 series was the Dozier equivalent of the Nolan Bat-films, but it was not Legends of the Super Heroes or Electra Woman and Dyna Girl, either.
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clavierankh
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Re: Newmar: Joan Collins played it too straight

Post by clavierankh »

I think, rather than comedy, the first season had absurdity. Batman warning Robin about pedestrian safety and sticking a hook on the side of a building to hold window bars they cut away Or telling the Bartender he doesn't want to attract attention.

The first season Batman wouldn't have put on "baggies" and challenged the Joker to a surfing contest or attracted explosive mice with a flute.
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AndyFish
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Re: Newmar: Joan Collins played it too straight

Post by AndyFish »

Somebody considered it a comedy, because it was tested with a laugh track ala GET SMART and every other sitcom of the day-- and the show, already testing poorly, tested WORSE with the laugh track. Might not have been Dozier's idea, could have been the Network, but the fact that they were going to use one backs up the comedic angle.
robinboyblunderer
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Re: Newmar: Joan Collins played it too straight

Post by robinboyblunderer »

The first season was the most balanced, between absurd comedy and action, though even the action was something different with the visual sound effects.

I can enjoy the variety, from first season through third. Sure, there were no "baggies" in the first season but that's one of my favorite episodes from the third. Everyone has a different preference.

While I enjoy the more outlandish elements as the show progressed, I disliked Batman's regression and felt the show suffered from his growing stupidity, especially in the third season.
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