What if a singer had played Siren?

[High C]

Someone recently posted this on the thread about Julie Newmar believing Joan Collins' portrayal of The Siren was too straight:

If she was meant to be taken more seriously. Then I wish her Power wasn't some random High Pitched sound but actually using her real Melodic Voice to hypnotize people.

It's a fair question and I thought it deserved its own thread.

It's kind of a moot point in that the character was written specifically for Joan Collins, who never has been known for her singing ability. Certainly when Stanley Ralph Ross created the character, he knew it was for a non-singer. In fact, in the original script, there was no high-pitched sound. It was explained the Siren's note was so high humans couldn't hear it.

If they had gone with a singer for such a major role, it couldn't have been someone such as Lesley Gore. It would have needed to be a woman who also was at least a semi-established actress. Here are the best possibilities from that era, IMO:

1. Julie London. She was known for her sultry singing and smoky voice, and certainly came across in her live performances like a siren.

2. Barbara McNair. She was an accomplished singer who was doing some TV at the time, including a Hogan's Heroes in Nov. 1967 in which she played a Josephine Baker-like songstress.

3. Tammy Grimes. Would have been more of an eclectic choice than the other two, but she had extensive experience in musicals and actually was the original choice to play Samantha on Bewitched, so she certainly could have played a supernatural-type character. But William Dozier had produced the short-lived Tammy Grimes Show, which lasted only four episodes in 1966. One wonders if they would have wanted to work together again.

[elmrgraham]

They also would have been excellent as The Siren.

[Jaws63]

My choice for alternate actress to play Siren might be "June Carte Cash"(why does Siren have to be of British decent). My other choice might be "Julie Andrews"

[elmrgraham]

I agree there too.

[AndyFish]

The character never was all that interesting to me -- they should have just gone with Poison Ivy-- but Ralph Ross was clearly not interested in the source material.

[epaddon]

Julie London would have been the best alternate choice for singing/seductress. Her guest shot on a 1969 "Big Valley" episode shows off those qualities that also made her famous as a singer in the 1950s and 60s. Those who only know her as Nurse Dixie McCall on "Emergency!" really have no idea just how famous her aura was as a singer.

If the character had been a younger type with a more hippie aura who perhaps ensnares Robin then Nancy Sinatra would have been perfect (she too was doing TV guest shots in this era).

[epaddon]

The character never was all that interesting to me -- they should have just gone with Poison Ivy-- but Ralph Ross was clearly not interested in the source material.

He was writing a character geared toward a specific *actresss* which is the point you seem to miss. I too would have liked to have seen Poison Ivy, but the idea that giving us the Siren was a case of disrespecting the source material is absurd.

[High C]

The character never was all that interesting to me -- they should have just gone with Poison Ivy-- but Ralph Ross was clearly not interested in the source material.

The question I'm asking is would the character have been more interesting to you if it had been a real singer, actually singing to her victims.

As for the lack of respect for the source material, I agree, but I must have missed the comics with Lord Ffogg and Lady Peasoup in which Batman deserts Gotham City because a bunch of rich Brits had their swag stolen. We both like characters that didn't exist in the comics universe.

I too would like to have seen Ivy, but not if it meant no Siren.

[Robin Holyisms]

I too would like to have seen Ivy, but not if it meant no Siren.

Well Poison Ivy was included in the initial script for the "That Darn Catwoman" episode. But if this panel is anything to go by she probably would've been a little too much like Catwoman.

[High C]

I too would like to have seen Ivy, but not if it meant no Siren.

Well Poison Ivy was included in the initial script for the "That Darn Catwoman" episode. But if this panel is anything to go by she probably would've been a little too much like Catwoman.

Great point. The 1966-67 Ivy was a lot different in terms of personality than what she eventually would become.

[AndyFish]

Nope, didn't mean Ross was disrespecting Poison Ivy by replacing her win Siren, I meant he had little regard in general for any of the source material of Batman and Siren was in a similar vein as ivy, although I'd be shocked if he even knew Poison Ivy existed. His writing was too over the top for my tastes and he clearly missed Lorenzo Semples memo at the beginning of the series advising writers to avoid parody.

For the Third season, the Siren episode (episodes? Is there more than one?) are certainly better than most of the other episodes for that last year.

[AndyFish]

I absolutely hate Lord Pfogg and Lady Peasoup, but I love the wackiness of a British Batman adventure in the swinging sixties, and Lady Prudence was pure evil with Robin and the bees. She was the real villain of the episodes for me.

But I do LOVE King Tut and Shame and for that matter Mister Freeze is a series original since he's Mister Zero in the comics. I'm definitely not being fair towards the Siren, I've not watched those episodes in a Long time and tastes change. As a kid I hated Shame and Tut and now they're the guys I'd want to hang out with so who knows? I'll give those episodes another chance when the Blu ray comes out.

As for the original question, I think a singer would have been interesting, but the character was written for Joan Collins so it would have had to be someone else.

I would have LOVED to see Nora Clavicle, Louie the Lilac or Minerva replaced with ANY other villains, preferably ones we'd not seen before, new or canonical.

[Progress Pigment]

Nancy Sinatra! Interesting. Julie London had a great face & figure like Joan. I saw her on an old 'Jack Benny' recently. Whooo! I'm surprised they didn't use Peggy Lee, or ... Ethel Merman. Yikes.

[John Mack]

I think Petula Clark who sang, "Downtown" would have been a great choice, but it was written for Joan.

I don't want to change the tone of this thread so look for my thread entitled, "What did you find odd about the show when you were a kid, but now understand."

John

[High C]

I absolutely hate Lord Pfogg and Lady Peasoup, but I love the wackiness of a British Batman adventure in the swinging sixties, and Lady Prudence was pure evil with Robin and the bees. She was the real villain of the episodes for me.

Well, we agree 100 percent on that. Lyn Peters was an underrated actress and had the eps been focused on her character, I think they would have been much better. Actually, the original outline by Elkan Allan, submitted in March 1967, had no Peasoup or Batgirl, for that matter. Ffogg and his daughter, called Prunella originally, were the villains.

But I do LOVE King Tut and Shame and for that matter Mister Freeze is a series original since he's Mister Zero in the comics. I'm definitely not being fair towards the Siren, I've not watched those episodes in a Long time and tastes change. As a kid I hated Shame and Tut and now they're the guys I'd want to hang out with so who knows? I'll give those episodes another chance when the Blu ray comes out.

Obviously, I'm Siren's biggest advocate, but I'll say this--it doesn't play like a season 3 ep. Joan isn't mugging and winking at the camera, as Newmar certainly pointed out. . .