Whatever Happened to Baby Jane (Towser)?

[JWLJN]

I guess I'm in the minority that thought she was great. Perfectly over the top and great looking.

I could not stand Venus as a kid and still can't. It wasn't all Moore's fault, although there is a scene, I believe in the record shop, that she fumbles so bad that I can't believe it was left in.

Kathy Kersh was pretty bad, as was Minerva's Aphrodite. The latter was the most pointless "moll" of the series.

-J\/\/

[Dr. Shimel]

The way she talked was so annoying. "But I was so gullible, Mrs. Cooper".

UGH! Her worst line delivery.

The way her mouth moved when she spoke was equally irritating, since it was so enunciated, as if she was trying to emote.

[BatDavidEvanSmith]

This is one topic I couldn't WAIT to weigh in on.

To watch Baby Jane Towser is always one of my most grating experiences in watching this Batman series. She IS way too over the top, hammy, and mugging. I DO however think it was her deliberate acting choice to deliver her character that way... thought I think it was the wrong choice. I don't think she performed in ignorance of what she was doing. But I think she made a really stupid, uninformed acting choice that might have been born from lack of experience and bad career decisions. The episode itself is built around an absurdist premise, that the Joker is such an outrageously talented artist that he opens his own school to scam money from Towser. So rather than make her character be strong with a fatal flaw, she lost faith in her own character and played her as a gullible, empty-headed fool. The actress must have had no idea how to justify her character's actions and just made her a fool. Rich, sheltered, and a poor judge of character. Simple and a victim. There's nothing sympathetic or relatable about her because she's just a simple fool. The exaggerated delivery of lines also just makes it too farcical, and alienates the viewer even more.

I felt from the actual lines of dialogue that The Joker was seducing Baby Jane, and making her fall in love with his artistic genius in order to access her money. Maybe if she played more unspoken skepticism, shrewd caution, but relented to his charms and what she believed to be his genius anyway, and then felt hurt and betrayal and humiliation, it would have been something the audience could have connected with more deeply.

Terry Moore's poor Woman's Marilyn Monroe impression as Venus was another poor choice, and didn't come off naturally, but I couldn't keep track of whose side Venus was on. Perhaps she committed too fully to her unclearly defined motivations, as the character volleyed back and forth between relishing over and being a remorseful accomplice to the criminals, and yearning-for-redemption through helping Batman and Robin. It changed several times and she seemed too sincere in every scene to imply the character was at all deceptive, rather than just wishy-washy. I could never pinpoint an inciting incident that would cause Venus to flip at any point in the story to follow her logically. And to endure her for three episodes! Torture.

On the flip-side, Molly from the first episodes was only my second favorite moll. I felt like Blaze from the False-Face episodes had stronger characterization and was the most fully-realized support villainesses in the whole series. Calculating, cold, clever, sexy, manipulative, seductive, intelligent, sophisticated, wicked... and mysterious. Blaze gave all of that, and left us wondering how many more layers there were, and what fully motivated her. I loved her version of disguise, with all the wigs and affectations and theatricality, and this was an actress who could play conflict and switching sides with believability. Much more of a femme fatale than Venus. Blaze is my #1, hands down.

[epaddon]

The perfect inside joke part for Terry Moore in the series would have been Rocket O'Roarke in the Puzzler episode trying to impress billionaire "Artemis Knab" because Knab was an obvious knock-off of Howard Hughes, whom Moore had a relationship with for some time and later successfully claimed in court that she had been secretly married to Hughes and was entitled to a settlement from his estate!

[WayneGrayson]

I agree with BatDavidEvanSmith - Baby Jane Towser was very horribly portrayed. I watched it after I read these comments the other day and really listened to her dialogue. Her lines were fine, and she was pretty, but.....that's about it. She was okay when she spoke on an even keel. At the tag, she seemed to have leveled off - at first, but then she spouts, "I was so GULLIBLE Mrs. Cooper", and those little Rascals nods of the head - STOP IT STOP IT STOP IT NOW! Having said all that, the Joker had an even worse moll than she - it was that mousy one in the comic book trap episode, the one who tried to blackmail Bruce Wayne into marrying her, or something like that - the Joker's robots were cool and Robin's comic book pressing trap was hilarious, but I really could have done without that moll. I liked Blaze a lot, and Miss Limpet from Bookworm was pretty cool, too, but my hands down favorite moll - EVER, even better than Jill St John, was EENIE. She was so cool and I liked her relationship with Catwoman. They seemed like equals. I always howl when Catwoman thinks out loud about fixing her up with Robin in the middle of a bat-fight. Dozier's line about Robin becoming a cuddly stuffed toy for Eenie also broke me up. I don't remember the name of the episode, so I'll do a "Friends" and call it "The One Where Catwoman Steals the Voices". It's my favorite Catwoman episode, and believe me that was no easy decision.

[John Mack]

Oh, come on guys. I think you're all too harsh on these women. They all played obsurd roles along side obsurd characters. Not only that, think about Adam West himself. My mother called him the biggest ham on TV along side Shattner. I mean, I love my show and Adam, but these actresses weren't any worse or better than anyone else in the series. Madge Blake? Good heavens. So nervous. Stafford Repp? Even Neil Hamilton said he played the chief too over the top. How about Yvonne Craig? Listen to some of her deliveries.....deliveries straight from "over the top deli" with a big slice of CHEESE. Point being, this is just a fun show and it worked for me.

If we're talking best actress, the award goes to Bonnie, Gordon's secretary. Delivered her lines flawlessly and always on cue, with just the right amount of urgency to her voice. Do we even know the actresses' name? She gets the "Batty award."

I think the best regular actor on the series was Alan Napier. If you have a chance, you should see him as Sherlock Holmes.

John

[Pengy]

Madge never came across as nervous to me. Just slightly dithery as women of her age sometimes are. I always thought Blake was solid as Aunt Harriet. Sweet old dear. I'd love to have had her as my Aunt lol.

[Bill S.C.]

Try facebook; she seems to have a very minimal page; if that in fact is her.

[John Mack]

Madge never came across as nervous to me. Just slightly dithery as women of her age sometimes are. I always thought Blake was solid as Aunt Harriet. Sweet old dear. I'd love to have had her as my Aunt lol.

Sorry, it's a matter of record that Blake was anything but solid. She blew her lines over and over again and so many takes had to be done that many on the set would start losing their patience with her. She was an extremely flustered actress. I'm sure a nice woman, but a little hard to take as an actress.

John

[High C]

Oh, come on guys. I think you're all too harsh on these women. They all played absurd roles alongside absurd characters. Not only that, think about Adam West himself. My mother called him the biggest ham on TV alongside Shatner. I mean, I love my show and Adam, but these actresses weren't any worse or better than anyone else in the series. Madge Blake? Good heavens. So nervous. Stafford Repp? Even Neil Hamilton said he played the chief too over the top. How about Yvonne Craig? Listen to some of her deliveries.....deliveries straight from "over the top deli" with a big slice of CHEESE. Point being, this is just a fun show and it worked for me.

With all due respect, I disagree 100 percent with this line of thinking. That was part of the reason the show declined, people hamming it up too much.

Put it this way--I'm sure you notice when a musician slightly flubs a note, even when the rest of us might not. I would suspect it detracts from your enjoyment of the music. Well, that's how some of us feel about the bad acting.

[John Mack]

You're entitled to your opinion,of course, but as you don't agree with my opinion, I don't agree with yours. This is just a fun little show that was never meant to be taken seriously in any respect. As for the music comment. I am more forgiving in that area then you'd expect. For sure.

John

[epaddon]

I think there needs to be a distinction between being a show that doesn't take itself seriously in the sense that the show is not about agenda-messages and "very special episodes" or presuming they are doing something profound. But at the same time, I think shows that are only supposed to be entertaining and fun still have an obligation to be presented professionally so that what is *fun* does not become silly and stupid because the people putting it out are too overly self-conscious of the idea they should be "fun." This is the reason why Season 1 episodes are held in generally higher regard than what followed because there is more of a *balance*. The shows are entertaining, larger-than-life fun but we're not seeing things that make us think we're seeing a stupid universe as a whole which is what episodes like Penguin for Mayor and the Egghead episode with its silliness about the Indians do.

To get back to the acting matter, I think things needed to be dialed back so that humor and silliness didn't overpower everything. When you do that, the show ceases to be fun and starts becoming self-indulgent parody which is an approach suitable for variety show sketches and not a sustaining programming IMO. Better choice in casting certain parts would have helped reduce that problem alongside of better scripts.

[BatDavidEvanSmith]

Agree eppadon, one hundred percent!

[John Mack]

Well we'll just have to agree to disagree as they say. To now BOTH of you. This was just a silly little show, not some major drama. Wasn't meant to be. All the actors in it were hamming it up, over the top and having a ball doing it. The bit little parts of the afore mentioned actresses would not have changed things one bit even if they had been "A" caliber actresses giving their performances of a lifetime. Did Joan Collins' performances do anything to boost the show. Nope. Surely we can agree that her performances were professional and NOT bad acting. Besides us Batgeeks, no one even remembers her on Batman. Her Dynasty days erased all that with most people. I never heard her mention once in an interview, "Oh, don't forget I was on Batman too." Jill St. John as well. I think I saw as many interviews with her during her Diamonds Are Forever days as I could and there was never even a side mention about her on Batman. Maybe in the geek magazine, Starlog but there again, not the mainstream public.

As for an "obligation" to be presented professionally, they were. You're just forgetting that Batman was viewed as a comedy. Was the acting BETTER on Laugh-In or The Monkees, or Gilligan's Island? Hardly. Notice I placed Batman in with the COMEDIES, not the major dramas/adventure shows of the time such as The Fugitive, I Spy, Mission: Impossible, UNCLE, Bonanza, Star Trek (1968) or Run For Your Life. Each of these shows were nominated for Emmys and Mission and The Fugitive WON!

It's like you're glumping in the acting of F-Troop with the likes of The Big Valley and Gunsmoke.

The only "obligation" they were under was to get a new episode out each week so they could ENTERTAIN to sell products. Once the "thrill" of the series was over and the product sales dwindled, it was goodbye Batman. Baby Jane and the others did not cause the extinction of the series. The series had run its course and no amount of "good acting" was to save it.

I'll be moving forward now. We're starting to beat a dead Bat here But thanks for the discourse. To me it was fun writing my opinions. Don't take any of this seriously. Adam would not want it that way.

John

[Lee Kirkham]

I'll try and be brief...

Overall, I think what we are experiencing here is a new appreciation for the cast and crew of the show. Did the guest stars and cast overplay their roles? You bet they did. This was one forum where that was encouraged and they took advantage of it.

That said, not every performer was able to find that groove of riding the fine line between high drama and absurdity that Adam, Burt, et al, were able to so perfectly capture most of the time. Some folks just can't play that sort of role and "pull it off". Simple as that.