Whatever Happened to Baby Jane (Towser)?

General goings on in the 1966 Batman World

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SprangFan
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Whatever Happened to Baby Jane (Towser)?

Post by SprangFan »

Well, whatever happened to her before "Pop Goes the Joker/Flop Goes the Joker," it sure didn't involve acting school. Just saw these episodes on IFC and without a doubt, Diana Ivarson's performance is the worst I've seen on "Batman" and pretty nearly the worst anywhere.

She's undeniably attractive, but her delivery of almost every line is excruciatingly ham-handed and delivered at the top of her lungs, like she's in a school play projecting to the back row. I'm guessing she was maybe the daughter or girlfriend of someone high up on the production team?

As for what happened to her afterwards, I see a scant four credits, the last in 1973, so I'm guessing she moved on to another career.

Wow, now that I've typed the above it comes off as really unkind and unchivalrous, but doggone it my ears are still ringing. :(
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TheBlueHombre
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Re: Whatever Happened to Baby Jane (Towser)?

Post by TheBlueHombre »

I agree with you on Baby Jane but I would also add to that mix Terry Moore who played Venus (The Zodiac Crimes). Her voice was very bad and she sounded so breathy all the time. I know she was in a lot of films in the 1940's and was partner with Howard Hughes, but . . .
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High C
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Re: Whatever Happened to Baby Jane (Towser)?

Post by High C »

SprangFan wrote:She's undeniably attractive, but her delivery of almost every line is excruciatingly ham-handed and delivered at the top of her lungs, like she's in a school play projecting to the back row. I'm guessing she was maybe the daughter or girlfriend of someone high up on the production team?
Funny thread title.

Actually, Ivarson was under contract to Fox, according to payment records from those episodes. Although the old 'studio systems,' in which major movie actors were under contract to studios, were gone by the 1960s, large studios such as Fox and Universal still had younger, more TV-oriented actors under contract. In fact, and board member epaddon could speak on this better than I can, some of the really young ones at Fox were attending acting classes at the studio itself. If Ivarson were doing that, I guess the lessons didn't take. She is pretty shrill.

It would be advantageous financially for Dozier and Co. to draw from this pool, because Fox would foot the bill considering these younger performers already were drawing a Fox salary.
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Mr.Freeze
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Re: Whatever Happened to Baby Jane (Towser)?

Post by Mr.Freeze »

Terry Moore was a friend of Monroe so the breathy voice could very well be an inside joke ;)
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High C
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Re: Whatever Happened to Baby Jane (Towser)?

Post by High C »

Mr.Freeze wrote:Terry Moore was a friend of Monroe so the breathy voice could very well be an inside joke ;)
Good call. There's no question it was. Terry once did an episode of the game show What's My Line in which she tried to fool the panel with a breathy, faux MM voice.

Still, it was not a good performance, and I'd say hers was worse than Ivarson's. Moore was a pro who had plenty of TV and movie appearances under her belt when she appeared on Batman, as opposed to Ivarson. As I've said before, Venus was so annoying I was hoping the giant clam would make a snack of her.

I would argue it was the worst casting decision of the series. Such a major moll role, filled with twists and turns, needed a better actress.
'I thought Siren was perfect for Joan.'--Stanley Ralph Ross, writer of 'The Wail of the Siren'

My hobbies include gazing at the Siren and doing her bidding, evil or otherwise.

'She had a devastating, hypnotic effect on all the men.'--A schoolmate describing Joan Collins at age 17
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AndyFish
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Re: Whatever Happened to Baby Jane (Towser)?

Post by AndyFish »

Ha Sprang you made me laugh-- daughter of a girlfriend?? Close but no daughter needed in that sentence. Producers were notorious for visiting the talent pool for more than acting talents. There's an ensign in the first Star Trek episode who is so wooden you think she's part of the set, but yup she's pretty. Sure enough, Roddenberry hoped to make friends with her so he gave her the part.

It's not everyone, but I know from seeing it firsthand in Hollywood that these wolves still exist today.
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SprangFan
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Re: Whatever Happened to Baby Jane (Towser)?

Post by SprangFan »

Roddenberry's lechery was legendary, yes. And even though she went on to "Grand Old Dame" status in Trek fandom, even Majel Barrett started out as Gene's mistress. The network brass hated her as "Number One" in the first pilot, mostly because they knew how she got the job. When they insisted the character be dropped from the series proper, Gene had another "embattled genius" myth to take on the road to college campuses and SF conventions for the rest of his life: How the big bad network wasn't ready for a female lead, even though he as the forward-thinking progressive creator championed her, strictly in the interests of women's lib.

Then of course he snuck her onto the show, anyway, in a blonde wig as Nurse Chapel. :lol:

As far as Ivarson (and Moore) it's interesting to study what works and what doesn't on a show like Batman. A certain degree of "over the top" is called for, but it takes a skilled performer to get it right. In the same episode, Cesar nails the spirit of campy excess, as would Burgess Meredith in his episodes, and even the manic lunacy of Gorshin somehow always stays within bounds, never quite overwhelming the proceedings. Ivarson seems to understand on some level that "Batman" calls for more exaggeration and bombast than, say, "Gunsmoke" or "Peyton Place," but she takes it way too far with broad gestures and mugging. At the end, she says, "It'll be a long time before I go to another art show!" and follows it up with a head nod, like Buckwheat saying, "Me too, neither...HMPH!"

In her defense, how do you deliver a line like, "You gorgeous hunk of man!" to Cesar in whiteface and a fuchsia coat and tails without knowing it's ridiculous? But the key, I think, is to downplay the craziness; act like you're sincere, never telegraph to the audience how crazy it is. We know already. You know you've blown it when you're sharing the screen with that guy in whiteface, fuchsia tails and green wig and it's only when YOU open your mouth that the audience says, "Okay, now that's too much."

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High C
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Re: Whatever Happened to Baby Jane (Towser)?

Post by High C »

SprangFan wrote:Roddenberry's lechery was legendary, yes. And even though she went on to "Grand Old Dame" status in Trek fandom, even Majel Barrett started out as Gene's mistress. The network brass hated her as "Number One" in the first pilot, mostly because they knew how she got the job. When they insisted the character be dropped from the series proper, Gene had another "embattled genius" myth to take on the road to college campuses and SF conventions for the rest of his life: How the big bad network wasn't ready for a female lead, even though he as the forward-thinking progressive creator championed her, strictly in the interests of women's lib.

Then of course he snuck her onto the show, anyway, in a blonde wig as Nurse Chapel. :lol:
Correct. Roddenberry also had a previous affair with Nichelle 'Uhura' Nichols before she was hired for Trek.

But as far as I can tell, Dozier didn't engage in such things. His choices for molls and other female roles, especially after season 1, tended to fit into these categories:
1. Young and cheap
2. Fox starlets
3. Daughters of producers, executives and actors/actresses (Tisha Sterling, Jane Wald, Skye Aubrey)
4. Older actresses who weren't getting much work anymore (Peggy Ann Garner, Corinne Calvet, etc.).
'I thought Siren was perfect for Joan.'--Stanley Ralph Ross, writer of 'The Wail of the Siren'

My hobbies include gazing at the Siren and doing her bidding, evil or otherwise.

'She had a devastating, hypnotic effect on all the men.'--A schoolmate describing Joan Collins at age 17
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SprangFan
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Re: Whatever Happened to Baby Jane (Towser)?

Post by SprangFan »

Well yes, and I should stress I'm not suggesting Ms Ivarson got the job through a turn on "the casting couch." Her shortcomings as an actress are evident and open to criticism, but the rest is a matter for (prurient) speculation, and it would be unseemly to go there.

That said, I do consider her one of many "pretty faces" on the Batman show that helped contribute to the stereotype of "beautiful but dumb." I know that was a popular image in the Swingin' Sixties, from Playboy Bunnies to "Fly Me" Airline Stewardesses, but from a modern point of view it's hard to find "stupid" attractive, even if it's just a put-on. I think she's a particularly annoying example of the type, thanks to that grating, bleating voice of hers, but she's hardly the only one. Probably one of the reasons Jill St John's "Molly" remains so popular is that she's written and played with much more complexity than just about any female on the show, except for Catwoman.
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Re: Whatever Happened to Baby Jane (Towser)?

Post by Yellow Oval »

Glad to see I'm not the only one who thought Baby Jane Towser was THE WORST on the show. I still cringe and have a hard time watching the episode as her acting is as painful to watch/hear as a knight's metal glove screeching on a chalkboard! :o

As for Hollywood and its inner-workings (I've heard some real dark stuff about people there from some sources), all I can say is a town filled with wolves that can make or break careers and attractive sheep that desperately want those careers come hell or high water makes for a very bad mix. But, for we viewers, at the end of the day, we all want the beautifully iced cake that comes out of the oven despite the fact we're not really sure about how the ingredients were mixed.
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AndyFish
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Re: Whatever Happened to Baby Jane (Towser)?

Post by AndyFish »

I have some friends from very wealthy families (one even INCREDIBLY wealthy) and I am always surprised how many of the young women in those families sound exactly like Baby Jane, AND their fascination with art, artists and galleries. I guess when the family is dropping $50mil on a new wing they learn how to tell a Monet from a Manet, with little else to focus their energies.

I've never thought Dozier was playing the couch game, he was married to Joan Fontaine who I'm sure would have straightened him out if he tried.
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epaddon
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Re: Whatever Happened to Baby Jane (Towser)?

Post by epaddon »

In 1968 author John Gregory Dunne wrote a book called "The Studio" based on his total carte blanche access to Fox during 1967. He doesn't mention "Batman" but you get a total feel for what the studio was like during the filming of movies like "Doctor Doolittle" and "Planet Of The Apes" and he also described Irwin Allen shooting the pilot episode of "Land Of The Giants". Dunne also mentions how Fox had an in-house acting school run by veteran character actor Curt Conway (who played a judge in two episodes of "The Odd Couple" including the famous one where Felix defines the word "Assume") for developing young talent and how these students were frequently given bit parts on numerous Fox TV shows and Fox movies as a way of evaluating them. Clearly, this is where a lot of "Batman" people came from who had no extensive list of credits before or after. Elizabeth Baur, later of "Ironside" who played a police woman in the Nora Clavicle episode also came out of this program (though she also had a plus with her father working at Fox as well at this time).

Dunne's book is well worth reading and if I hadn't found it and he hadn't documented this story of Fox during this period, I might have felt a lot of these bit players like Ivarson came from the casting couch too!
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Re: Whatever Happened to Baby Jane (Towser)?

Post by BATWINGED HORNET »

The Studio sounds like a fascinating book.
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epaddon
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Re: Whatever Happened to Baby Jane (Towser)?

Post by epaddon »

It's one of the best insider books I've seen just showing a snapshot in time of a studio in this period. You get moments like Alexander Courage and Lionel Newman pondering which song to use for the title credits of "Doctor Doolittle" and after finding "Talk To The Animals" runs too long, Newman then says in exasperation, "Sxxx it's such a lousy song anyway!" followed by a painful moment of has-been director Henry Koster trying to pitch a ludicrous idea for a movie to Richard Zanuck who has to listen in polite silence and let him down easy to Irwin Allen discussing the making of his "Man From The 25th Century" presentation film that never got to the series stage (and how he had decided against doing it as a backdoor pilot in a Lost In Space episode). There's even a priceless moment of the casting directors of other Fox shows (Peyton Place, Judd For The Defense, Daniel Boone) deciding whether they can use a particular actor in any show who is under a pay or play deal with the studio and they all shake their heads and draw an imaginary square in the air. It's unguarded moments like that that really make you understand just how things worked back then even if you don't learn any anecdotes about "Batman". The book is still in print actually since it's been reissued several times with new intros.
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Pengy
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Re: Whatever Happened to Baby Jane (Towser)?

Post by Pengy »

The way she talked was so annoying. "But I was so gullible, Mrs. Cooper".

UGH! Her worst line delivery.
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