Whatever Happened to Baby Jane (Towser)?

General goings on in the 1966 Batman World

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epaddon
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Re: Whatever Happened to Baby Jane (Towser)?

Post by epaddon »

Batguitarist wrote:Well we'll just have to agree to disagree as they say. To now BOTH of you. This was just a silly little show, not some major drama.
John, did either of us ever say it was supposed to be? If you want to disagree fine, but try responding to our points as *we've* defined them and don't attribute arguments to us we never made.

Second, you also miss the point that when we are critical of the too silly direction it was taking as time went by, then that represents a criticism of the leadership at the top for letting that happen, i.e. Dozier, Horwitz, Charles Hoffman etc. who should have been preventing that from happeing. Just *maybe* if they had done so, the show lasts longer than three seasons (perhaps as much as five) and there are fewer episodes that come off as stupid compared to fun.
Besides us Batgeeks, no one even remembers her on Batman
You know, I could point out a number of articles to disprove that argument in a minute, but I'm trying to recall when Joan was the subject of the discussion. This comes across as cheap baiting if you ask me just because it's High C and me who are critical of your argument.

Also, if you think "I Spy" wasn't a "comedy' itself with all that crazy ad libbing by Culp/Cosby on a regular basis then you wren't watching that show. And try watching "Man From UNCLE" sometime and tell me that's meant to be uber-serious drama. The point is when those shows were good, they were achieving a good balance and UNCLE, like Batman, also proved what happened when you lose the balance. Batman needed to maintain a balance to last longer and avoid some of the negative press it acquired, and unfortunately they weren't able to maintain that. If you really think a S3 episode like Nora Clavicle is identical to a S1 episode in terms of overall balance and tone, then we're definitely not watching the same program.
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BatDavidEvanSmith
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Re: Whatever Happened to Baby Jane (Towser)?

Post by BatDavidEvanSmith »

I was born in 1983. So I grew up watching reruns of Batman on the Family Channel during my summer vacations from school. As a kid, of course I was drawn to the action/adventure and superhero and comic book tone of the show. I loved the stories and the punching and kicking and the upbeat music during the fights and the crazy characters.

At the age of 31 now, I appreciate the way the show was written, and I can more clearly understand what I believe was the intent of the show, at least from how season one was presented. There was a tongue firmly planted in cheek for a lot of season one, a lot of winking to the audience, and it was grown people in spandex and masks running around in the daylight committing crimes or solving them. There NEEDS to be humor because translating that premise from a comic book to a "real" setting was virtually unprecedented at the time, and a huge risk. It's the same reason that Marvel Comics puts so much humor into their Avengers franchise and particularly the Thor movies, because it's the God of Thunder flying around with a giant hammer and producing lightning. Or Guardians of the Galaxy with their talking tree and gun-wielding Raccoon. You can't play that straight. But I agree that the proper balance of humor and clever writing will go a long way to protect the tone of a show and ensure its longevity. And ALL parts of production have a hand in protecting that tone, and many factors contributed to the shift in balance, including weaker casting in season two. Particularly with these guest roles that were standouts because they were THE woman in the episode, when the main cast was men (while Aunt Harriet was back at the mansion exclaiming "Mercy Alive!") and the majority of villains were men. These women were not there by accident in the script, they were there to add variety, color, humor, TONE, balance, flavor. And we are all going to have our own opinions about who added the RIGHT humor, tone, etc., but that's all they are... our opinions.

For me, re-experiencing the series as an adult and being able to see the shift over the course of season two, I feel like the show gained pop culture accolades for its proper balance in season one, so it became a craze for season two where every celebrity or "it" actor of the time just wanted to pop their head out of a window. So the writers had to write that in. They had to give Phyllis Diller the scrubwoman role, and let Milton Berle be a guard/gunman in the Ma Parker episode, and by the end of season two the actual story and protecting the tone became secondary to guest stars and gimmicks, and propping up whoever wanted to be involved in the show. And the ratings dipped because it wasn't about the story or the cleverness or the balance, or the talent on-screen that could STRIKE the balance... it was about the "it" person or cameo of the moment. So by season three, they cut the show down to half hour single episodes, budget is slashed, tack on Batgirl to try to boost ratings, and at the same time still buy into MORE pandering storytelling by building episodes around pop culture fads of the time... surfing contests, emerging feminism (which was backhanded by chauvinism in the very same episode) and little green men from outer space. Batman's final death trap was being trapped in a pressure cooker at a spa. What a whimper, instead of a BANG! POW!

But, in my opinion, there's no denying the tonal shift, and devolving of the series from one version of itself into another. From a type of Pop Art to a Parody. I still enjoy seasons two and three for different reasons and it still is my all-time favorite series, but it's not a consistent series, in my opinion, by any stretch. And if it had been more consistent, it might have lived longer. Impacted more lives, been treated with more respect (because the consistency of balance and tone demanded respect), had more amazing portrayals by amazing actors and introduced more amazing characters from the Batman universe at the time. We'll never know, now, because it devolved.
"When we get to the royal oil boiling room, be sure to prepare some real boiling royal boiling oil to boil the boy wonder in... royally."
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Scott Sebring
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Re: Whatever Happened to Baby Jane (Towser)?

Post by Scott Sebring »

And...

I think this is straying further and further away from what this thread was originally about. Let's not get into the semantics of a debate class with exact wording and the like. Nobody is on trial. There is no court case and all the filibustering from anyone isn't going to shift anybody else's view at this point. Pretty interesting stuff all around though. Also, let's not take or make any of this personal here or if the subject is to arise again in another thread. Not that it has gone there completely but the fine line is being stomped on pretty good.

Moving on...
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Mr. Glee
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Re: Whatever Happened to Baby Jane (Towser)?

Post by Mr. Glee »

"...It's Miss Ivarson, however, who gives the Barn's current production that special touch which adds an aura of immense glamour."
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BATWINGED HORNET
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Re: Whatever Happened to Baby Jane (Towser)?

Post by BATWINGED HORNET »

Wow. Nice find!
Beneath Wayne Manor
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