Any Molls Strong Enough To Be On Their Own?

General goings on in the 1966 Batman World

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High C
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Re: Any Molls Strong Enough To Be On Their Own?

Post by High C » Mon Mar 09, 2015 8:32 pm

Progress Pigment wrote:Ah c'mon, the Commodore didn't mean anything. :roll:
You say yourself it's sad. I guess I'm a fuddy-duddy because I don't think attempted murder is a joke. Whatever.
'I thought Siren was perfect for Joan.'--Stanley Ralph Ross, writer of 'The Wail of the Siren'

My hobbies include gazing at the Siren and doing her bidding, evil or otherwise.

'She had a devastating, hypnotic effect on all the men.'--A schoolmate describing Joan Collins at age 17

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epaddon
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Re: Any Molls Strong Enough To Be On Their Own?

Post by epaddon » Mon Mar 09, 2015 8:41 pm

Dorian/Vetri is a reminder of why no matter how much we might end up admiring an actress, actor or anyone else who creates a memorable character on-screen for us, we can't confuse that with the actual person. Sometimes happily the person will turn out to be nice and approachable and great to get to know like Adam or many others who've been friendly with the fans but sometimes they'll end up showing some dark sides of themselves as she did. Vetri is not a "poor lady" she is a convicted felon serving time in jail for a horrible offense. It's okay to keep enjoying what she did on-screen because that isn't the real person, but the real person IMO isn't entitled to any pity or sympathy. Just my two cents.

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weirdkorey
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Re: Any Molls Strong Enough To Be On Their Own?

Post by weirdkorey » Tue Mar 10, 2015 6:56 am

epaddon wrote:Dorian/Vetri is a reminder of why no matter how much we might end up admiring an actress, actor or anyone else who creates a memorable character on-screen for us, we can't confuse that with the actual person. Sometimes happily the person will turn out to be nice and approachable and great to get to know like Adam or many others who've been friendly with the fans but sometimes they'll end up showing some dark sides of themselves as she did. Vetri is not a "poor lady" she is a convicted felon serving time in jail for a horrible offense. It's okay to keep enjoying what she did on-screen because that isn't the real person, but the real person IMO isn't entitled to any pity or sympathy. Just my two cents.
I completely agree with epaddon on this. I loved her in the show but like epaddon stated we can't confuse that with the actual person. Anyway back to the original topic, my favorite for mole that was strong enough to be on their own was definitely Blaze, to me she was just as vital to False face's scheme as False face was himself, & honestly that is rare.

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Riddler Fan
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Re: Any Molls Strong Enough To Be On Their Own?

Post by Riddler Fan » Wed Mar 11, 2015 4:05 am

I think Anna Gramm from the Astin Riddler two parter could have been a great villainess. She was cunning, cold and serious and had no qualms about helping Riddler attempt to drown B&R in quicksand. She was also a fighter right to the very end who had to be literally dragged away kicking and screaming. If she had any weakness it was being totally obedient (if not totally in love) with Riddler.

elmrgraham
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Re: Any Molls Strong Enough To Be On Their Own?

Post by elmrgraham » Wed Mar 11, 2015 4:31 am

I agree.She could have been called Miss Riddler.

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Mr. Deathtrap
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Re: Any Molls Strong Enough To Be On Their Own?

Post by Mr. Deathtrap » Thu Mar 12, 2015 8:53 am

Citizens,

I like the arguments put forward for Anna Gram.

My choice is Legs Parker. She grew up in a criminal family without being appreciated by her mother, at least until they went up against Batman in Gotham City. So, she has a chip on her shoulder that may be why she was regarded as the most dangerous Parker family member.

In the story she was smart enough to step away from the final Batfight and would likely have escaped had they not been in a prison.

Also, while unalble to be motherly like her matriarch, she was certainly old enough to have power over men.

Mr. Deathtrap
Tune in for their exciting conclusion. Same Bat-Time! Same Bat - Channel!

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High C
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Re: Any Molls Strong Enough To Be On Their Own?

Post by High C » Sat Apr 04, 2015 4:40 pm

I look at the question a bit differently than most. I think more about whether the actress playing the moll had the acting 'chops' necessary to do something bigger. Here's my list:

1. Jill St. John (Molly). Was a big enough deal that she was billed ahead of Gorshin. I could see JSJ as Poison Ivy, easily.

2. Nancy Kovack (Queenie). Was doing much more complex roles in TV guest shots 1-2 years after Batman and it's unfortunate she appeared so early in such an underwritten role.

3. Myrna Fahey (Blaze). Blaze was one of the most complex moll roles in the series, and I thought Fahey handled it well. I think she had the beauty and presence for a larger role.

4. Julie Gregg (Finella). Gregg went on to play much more challenging roles later in her career on shows such as Mission:Impossible, Mannix and Kojak, and also was nominated for a Tony Award on Broadway. Playing a ditzy blonde in Batman was much different than what she would go on to do, and the fact she made Finella so believably ditzy is a credit to her acting range.
'I thought Siren was perfect for Joan.'--Stanley Ralph Ross, writer of 'The Wail of the Siren'

My hobbies include gazing at the Siren and doing her bidding, evil or otherwise.

'She had a devastating, hypnotic effect on all the men.'--A schoolmate describing Joan Collins at age 17

elmrgraham
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Re: Any Molls Strong Enough To Be On Their Own?

Post by elmrgraham » Sat Apr 04, 2015 4:46 pm

I agree High C.Especially JSJ as Poison Ivy.

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epaddon
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Re: Any Molls Strong Enough To Be On Their Own?

Post by epaddon » Sun Apr 05, 2015 12:43 pm

I have to agree that the criteria first should be the range and competence of the actress, and not necessarily the part they played as a henchmoll. Nancy Kovack for instance tops the list IMO of those who have the gravitas necessary to be a focal-point villainess in a Batman story, but at the same time having it be Queenie promoted to villainess would be a colossal mistake. It isn't the *character* that can be a villainess its what the actress could bring to the table as a villainess and did we see signs of a larger talent being held back/wasted in a henchmoll role.

Julie Gregg also falls in this category because of all the henchmolls she is the best as a pure *actress*. Discovering the broader range of her parts post-Batman has been one of the most eye-opening things for me because it highlights how well she was putting on act when they asked for "ditzy MM type henchmoll" and she gave it her all. Some years later she and another henchmoll, Francine York were in the same episode of "Kojak" and it summed up the difference between an actress of limited range and a great talent capable of more. Francine played a high-class hooker in the episode, pretty much within the same general range of her 60s fantasy roles like Batman and Lost In Space etc. Julie on the other hand had to play a troubled drug addict who in the climax has to give a five minute speech explaining the whole plot being investigated while going through the breakdown of withdrawal. It's the mark of a talented actress in action, far removed from the realm of MM style henchmoll. That's someone who could have been a villainess with the right character drawn to fit her other strengths IMO because she had the range for it.

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BatfanRicky
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Re: Any Molls Strong Enough To Be On Their Own?

Post by BatfanRicky » Tue Apr 07, 2015 10:43 am

Blaze certainly would have been very interesting character to explore!

Quarhog
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Re: Any Molls Strong Enough To Be On Their Own?

Post by Quarhog » Thu Aug 20, 2015 5:41 am

BatfanRicky wrote:Blaze certainly would have been very interesting character to explore!
Let's hope she got bored with going straight...!

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Dr. Shimel
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Re: Any Molls Strong Enough To Be On Their Own?

Post by Dr. Shimel » Thu Aug 20, 2015 5:45 am

Quarhog wrote:
BatfanRicky wrote:Blaze certainly would have been very interesting character to explore!
Let's hope she got bored with going straight...!
Being stuck on a New Zealand farm, scratching out an existence would likely get to anyone. :lol:

Quarhog
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Re: Any Molls Strong Enough To Be On Their Own?

Post by Quarhog » Thu Aug 20, 2015 8:29 am

Dr. Shimel wrote:
Quarhog wrote:
BatfanRicky wrote:Blaze certainly would have been very interesting character to explore!
Let's hope she got bored with going straight...!
Being stuck on a New Zealand farm, scratching out an existence would likely get to anyone. :lol:
Maybe she's now running a criminal empire in Auckland...!

Quarhog
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Re: Any Molls Strong Enough To Be On Their Own?

Post by Quarhog » Fri Aug 28, 2015 9:11 am

Riddler Fan wrote:I think Anna Gramm from the Astin Riddler two parter could have been a great villainess. She was cunning, cold and serious and had no qualms about helping Riddler attempt to drown B&R in quicksand. She was also a fighter right to the very end who had to be literally dragged away kicking and screaming. If she had any weakness it was being totally obedient (if not totally in love) with Riddler.
As written, Anna Gram is a seriously cool moll, and in the show she gets to wear the coolest costume of any henchbabe in the entire series. But Deanna Lund herself was totally miscast: for much of the time she's obviously a girly girl out of her depth rather than a fox; with her mouth perpetually hanging open and her eyes anxious and timid rather than confident and determined...

Quarhog
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Re: Any Molls Strong Enough To Be On Their Own?

Post by Quarhog » Thu Sep 03, 2015 1:40 pm

I'm surprise nobody's mentioned Betsy Boldface yet: definitely Riddler's partner in crime rather than mere moll (she'd have made a good team with Nora Clavicle)...and the only female baddie who smokes, I believe.

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