Female Villains

General goings on in the 1966 Batman World

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robinboyblunderer
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Female Villains

Post by robinboyblunderer »

Catwoman's the best. Julie Newmar's version.

So I'm putting her aside. Yes, one can debate the "lovey" Catwoman or critique it and Stanley Ross' s writing but she takes the number one spot. Even Lee Merriweather and Eartha Kitt's performances, while not at Newmar's level, are still interesting, the character survives different interpretation and so this villainess is at the top of the list.

But after that, discounting molls, it's not that good overall, especially considering the effort put into Egghead, King Tut, Shame, Bookworm etc.

Let's take a look.

First Season:

Zelda---more of a misguided crook; she's regretful at the end and isn't very interesting visually.


Second Season:

Ma Parker---interesting scheme and different from the typical formula which is refreshing and a good performance. But something about the character just falls a bit flat. Still, she and her gang would've been better than Lola or Cassandra.

Marsha---good, especially in her first episode. She nearly succeeds with her scheme and Alfred and Aunt Harriet's acting is a great and rare scene in the series.


Black Widow----I just didn't care for her performance. I think the character would've benefitted from a younger actress. Good motif with a variety of ways they could've gone with this character and one of the most creative lairs. Also, an interesting change of pace with Batman working for her while Robin is tied up and later gets free on his own and reverses the mind polarity device.


Third Season:


The Siren----While I'm not a fan of this episode, the character, both in conception and execution is pretty good. Too bad she wasn't in the first season. Nice lair, too.

Lola Lasagne---the worst one of all. Does anyone like this character?

Olga---again, good performance and there's some clever bits in these episodes but I think the two biggest drawbacks are 1) how she neutered Egghead and 2) unlike Black Widow, or Siren, the concept itself isn't that interesting.

Lady Penelope Peasoup----While my preference is to also include Lady Prudence, I'm not sure she's considered a villainess the same way Peasoup is. I like Lady Peasoup and the concept of an evil school and that the characters are running around in Londinium. She's evil and seems to take quite a bit of joy in her schemes. Holy Subjectivity! I'm definitely biased as I really enjoy these episodes.


Nora Clavicle---Pretty good but not based on the visuals, that is, her costume is kinda dull, but I get that's the point, she's not trying to be a flashy criminal but it's still not appealing. The performance is good and the character was interesting. But I rarely watch this episode as it's not that good. Unless I need a good laugh at the mice and the flute playing. And Gordon and O'Hara, they have some good moments in this.


Dr. Cassandra----Another case of good concept, lame execution. Is it her boring banter with her husband? The stupid Alvino ray? Her recycled costume? The actress? The performance is fine but she just doesn't work for me. But the idea of an evil female scientist/alchemist could've been really good.


Minerva----For the last episode, we get her?

No offense intended to Zsa Zsa but she seems more like a J. Pauline Spaghetti actress than a villainess. Again, good idea, evil spa owner with uninteresting execution. And we get the same deathtrap twice. I suppose there's the novelty, first the Dynamic Duo, then Batgirl and Alfred, first time in the whole show but it just seems like filler. She also seems like she's not taking it at all seriously, like it's the daydream of her character in Green Acres or something. I guess it's a refreshing take and her breezy attitude to everything is different and thus refreshing but it's just a bit of a waste.


Discounting concepts that weren't fully developed, I think these are the other successful villainess characters on the show.

Ma Parker (though she just barely makes it)
Marsha
The Siren
Lady Peasoup
Nora Clavicle

With such colorful source material to draw from, it still doesn't seem that impressive. I think some of the molls, per another topic on here, would've made more interesting characters. Pauline, Blaze, Okie Annie and so on.

cheers
Gorshin Romero
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Re: Female Villains

Post by Gorshin Romero »

I was never a fan of that 3-part Londinium episode. It had its moments here and there (Robin getting taken prisoner by the girls school---HA!) but overall there were no real cliffhangers and the villains were simply not that interesting, in my opinion. I actually enjoyed the Ma Parker episode. I thought it was well-written and executed. I enjoyed Shelley Winters' performance, although from what I've heard over the years, she allegedly was a pain in the rear to work with. Believe it or not, I actually did think that the Nora Clavicle and The Ladies Crime Club was pretty funny in concept. Sadly season 3 just didn't have the same charisma that the first two seasons had.
elmrgraham
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Re: Female Villains

Post by elmrgraham »

Fair enough.When are you going to do part 2 of your Batman Fan-Fic?
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Pengy
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Re: Female Villains

Post by Pengy »

I liked Lola. For several reasons, too.

First I liked that she came with an interesting back story. She knew Penguin from childhood, where they were both dishonest even then. She was clearly a gold digger who married wealthy men for money, only her latest one twigged to that and divorced her promptly leaving her with nothing but a horse. She said she even had to sell her parasol collection for eating money. So she was already an interesting character for me. She had a bit of meat to her character.

I loved her chemistry and banter with Meredith's Penguin. I believed they knew each other from years ago. I loved their scheme to rig the Bruce Wayne handicap race. It wasn't stupid, or too cheesy, and it was a great way to make big money, which is what the villains were nearly always after.

So yeah I know she wasn't the kind of high quality villainess the show had with other characters, but she was far from the worst in my book.

She didn't devalue Penguin's character like Olga did with Egghead. She didn't have a stupid scheme involving exploding mice and an insurance policy on Gotham City, or make women look like the stupidest most shallow beings on earth. I'd even rate her above Marsha in her first appearance, because of all that nonsense of marrying Batman just because she wanted to take the Bat diamond out of the Batcave herself, when Batman could have brought it to her, and any diamond expert could authenticate if it was a real diamond or not before she released Robin and the others from her love spell.
philigan
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Re: Female Villains

Post by philigan »

I agree with you about Lola. It's my favorite Batgirl episode. When I was a kid I taped the 2 parter on my tape recorder. I memorized the whole thing. I think Ethel had a great time working with Meredith, she seems to have broken character by laughing at some of his ad-libs. I like the glue factory scene, the banter between Bruce and the racing manager, the race, even the last fight when Lola tells Batgirl she can't go into the men's locker room. It's a very funny episode with 2 legends portraying villians.
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clavierankh
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Re: Female Villains

Post by clavierankh »

I thought the Lola Penguin episode was the closest to a second season episode. A well contrived plot that had to have various steps accomplished. Also as was said before the chemistry between Burgess and Ethel was great.

The Marsh one ran out of gas in part two. There was a lot of filler. Alfred advising the Commissioner and the Chief on women, Marsha and her aunt discussing potions ad the lame ending in the commissioner's office.

I notice many of the villanesses created for the show have something i common, taking control of men. Marsha with potions, Black Widow with her brain short circuiter, Siren with her stunning note, Nora Clavicle political pressure, Minerva with egg plant jelly massage. Maybe they needed a little more creativity with motives for the women.
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dell
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Re: Female Villains

Post by dell »

clavierankh wrote: I notice many of the villanesses created for the show have something i common, taking control of men. Marsha with potions, Black Widow with her brain short circuiter, Siren with her stunning note, Nora Clavicle political pressure, Minerva with egg plant jelly massage. Maybe they needed a little more creativity with motives for the women.
Good point clavier (or should I call you ankh?). I think there are two main reasons for this. First, It was in the mid 60's and women rarely held positions of power back then. So taking control of men was an easy plot maneuver to put the villainess in a position of power that they didn't have easy access to back then. I always thought the Nora Clavicle episode COULD have been much better if it had been more serious instead of goofy. Look how women were treated in that episode (Batgirl being an exception). I thought the way the female police officers were portrayed was embarrassing even when I watched it as a kid. In contrast, today we have Detective Benson on Law and Order. Are you going to mess with her?

The second reason for using control is that it is easier to remove the women from a physical confrontation with Batman and Robin. Having the villainess get into a fight with men would have been dicey. Even Batgirl doesn't punch men, she just kicks the you know what out of them. Catwoman (Julie) takes a Cat-rate (sp?) pose in one episode and Catwoman (Eartha) spits and hisses like she will fight before Chief O'Hara grabs her, but that is as close as it comes for a physical altercation for any villainess.
dell
Quarhog
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Re: Female Villains

Post by Quarhog »

dell wrote:
clavierankh wrote: I notice many of the villanesses created for the show have something i common, taking control of men. Marsha with potions, Black Widow with her brain short circuiter, Siren with her stunning note, Nora Clavicle political pressure, Minerva with egg plant jelly massage. Maybe they needed a little more creativity with motives for the women.
Good point clavier (or should I call you ankh?). I think there are two main reasons for this. First, It was in the mid 60's and women rarely held positions of power back then. So taking control of men was an easy plot maneuver to put the villainess in a position of power that they didn't have easy access to back then. I always thought the Nora Clavicle episode COULD have been much better if it had been more serious instead of goofy. Look how women were treated in that episode (Batgirl being an exception). I thought the way the female police officers were portrayed was embarrassing even when I watched it as a kid. In contrast, today we have Detective Benson on Law and Order. Are you going to mess with her?

The second reason for using control is that it is easier to remove the women from a physical confrontation with Batman and Robin. Having the villainess get into a fight with men would have been dicey. Even Batgirl doesn't punch men, she just kicks the you know what out of them. Catwoman (Julie) takes a Cat-rate (sp?) pose in one episode and Catwoman (Eartha) spits and hisses like she will fight before Chief O'Hara grabs her, but that is as close as it comes for a physical altercation for any villainess.
Quarhog
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Re: Female Villains

Post by Quarhog »

Nora Clavicle more than any other 'Batman' villain is preoccupied with power rather than plunder, and would probably have despised costume-wearing villainesses like Catwoman as mere freaks. (She'd have got on well with fellow career woman Betsy Boldface). The way she threatens Batgirl with a sharpened knitting needle is also alarmingly graphic amidst the usual comic strip violence...
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clavierankh
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Re: Female Villains

Post by clavierankh »

Quarhog wrote:Nora Clavicle more than any other 'Batman' villain is preoccupied with power rather than plunder, and would probably have despised costume-wearing villainesses like Catwoman as mere freaks. (She'd have got on well with fellow career woman Betsy Boldface). The way she threatens Batgirl with a sharpened knitting needle is also alarmingly graphic amidst the usual comic strip violence...
I disagree. If Nora was about power she would have stayed police commissioner. She wanted money so she was going to blow up Gotham City for insurance.
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Mr. Deathtrap
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Re: Female Villains

Post by Mr. Deathtrap »

Hey Robinboyblunderer,

l
You pointed out Minerva used the same deathtrap twice on Batman and Robin and then, later, on Batgirl and Alfred.

My complaint is not the recycling. It makes sense in terms of the story. Minerva assumes her trap killed the Dynamic Duo. Why not use the only effective deathtrap in Gotham City more than once? After all, Batgirl and Alrerd needed to be eliminated.

i think steam neutralizing Batpellets are a lame cheat for an escape which was, by this time in the show, sadly typical.

Mr. Deathtrap
Tune in for their exciting conclusion. Same Bat-Time! Same Bat - Channel!
Quarhog
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Re: Female Villains

Post by Quarhog »

clavierankh wrote:
Quarhog wrote:Nora Clavicle more than any other 'Batman' villain is preoccupied with power rather than plunder, and would probably have despised costume-wearing villainesses like Catwoman as mere freaks. (She'd have got on well with fellow career woman Betsy Boldface). The way she threatens Batgirl with a sharpened knitting needle is also alarmingly graphic amidst the usual comic strip violence...
I disagree. If Nora was about power she would have stayed police commissioner. She wanted money so she was going to blow up Gotham City for insurance.
Fair enough. But her lack of a costume indicated someone more basic, less bothered about the thrill of the chase, than the usual Batman adversary... Maybe she wanted the money in order to finance a run for president!
Quarhog
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Re: Female Villains

Post by Quarhog »

Quarhog wrote:
clavierankh wrote:
Quarhog wrote:Nora Clavicle more than any other 'Batman' villain is preoccupied with power rather than plunder, and would probably have despised costume-wearing villainesses like Catwoman as mere freaks. (She'd have got on well with fellow career woman Betsy Boldface). The way she threatens Batgirl with a sharpened knitting needle is also alarmingly graphic amidst the usual comic strip violence...
I disagree. If Nora was about power she would have stayed police commissioner. She wanted money so she was going to blow up Gotham City for insurance.
Fair enough. But her lack of a costume indicated someone more basic, less bothered about the thrill of the chase, than the usual Batman adversary... Maybe she wanted the money in order to finance a run for the presidency!
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