Zelda the great observation.. Atten Chuck, Scott, Wally and all the pros

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Mike Mulitsch
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Zelda the great observation.. Atten Chuck, Scott, Wally and all the pros

Post by Mike Mulitsch » Fri Feb 05, 2016 5:28 pm

I was watching Zelda the great last night, and on Bluray it seemed to me that that cowl was about as good as it was going to get, as in closest to being what we think a Chuck cowl is ? just wondering what you experts think

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Scott Sebring
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Re: Zelda the great observation.. Atten Chuck, Scott, Wally and all the pros

Post by Scott Sebring » Fri Feb 05, 2016 7:21 pm

Hmm. I don't know if I would say as good as it got or as close to the Chuck but certainly on the right path. Also, there were two cowls used on this episode. Chuck was pointing out one cowl that had a wider paint job on the nose and I took a look at it and noticed were definitely two different cowls used (not uncommon on the show as the Blu rays revealed time and time again).

Cowl one:
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Note the nose paint going almost an 1/8th of and inch into the inside corner of Batman's right eye. This makes the nose look a good bit wider than almost any other cowl on the show. Also, the ear goes down the side of his head a bit longer than some other ears leaving only about a 1/4 inch of the extended paint on the cowl itself.

Second cowl:
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Slightly finer lines on the nose but also they stop right into the corners of the eyes and don't go further. These ears don't go as far down the side of the cowl and leave a little more than an inch of the extended paint carried down below the actual ear construction. Last but not least, the eyebrows don't stretch across the width of the eye as much as Chuck's generally do. Especially this one over the left eye that is quite short in width. I think Chuck would possibly agree that this is probably the one used on the TV Guide cover. His eyebrows gravitate more to one of the cowls used in the '"True or False Face" and the "Purrfect Crime" although those ears still have the inch or so of extended ear paint.

One of the cowls used in "True or False Face" and "Purrfect Crime" that's closer to Chuck's work IMHO. But I'll let him speak for himself.

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Either way. Enjoy some good cowl shots. ;)
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Mike Mulitsch
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Re: Zelda the great observation.. Atten Chuck, Scott, Wally and all the pros

Post by Mike Mulitsch » Fri Feb 05, 2016 7:32 pm

Wow , I was just going for a no or yup
Thanks

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AndyFish
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Re: Zelda the great observation.. Atten Chuck, Scott, Wally and all the pros

Post by AndyFish » Fri Feb 05, 2016 10:16 pm

I'm with Scott.
It's interesting that much of the interior sets seemed to be shot with some red lamps to warm the actors faces, which lead to the purple hue of the cowl. When it's shot outside in natural light the blue fabric is much more visible.

The color you see on the screen is not always the color it is in real life.

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Re: Zelda the great observation.. Atten Chuck, Scott, Wally and all the pros

Post by Aussie Batfan » Sat Feb 06, 2016 1:35 am

Wow, in the fifth shot the shape of the ears really look like the basis for the bendy style used on the Hot Toys cowl...

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Re: Zelda the great observation.. Atten Chuck, Scott, Wally and all the pros

Post by Ben Bentley » Sat Feb 06, 2016 4:00 am

AndyFish wrote:I'm with Scott.
It's interesting that much of the interior sets seemed to be shot with some red lamps to warm the actors faces, which lead to the purple hue of the cowl. When it's shot outside in natural light the blue fabric is much more visible.

The color you see on the screen is not always the color it is in real life.
Yup that's exactly it, the difference in hue and subsequently the leaning towards purple or blue is in fact the difference between film stock balanced for Tungsten or the native daylight-light sources.

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Mike Mulitsch
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Re: Zelda the great observation.. Atten Chuck, Scott, Wally and all the pros

Post by Mike Mulitsch » Sat Feb 06, 2016 8:49 am

Thanks experts I love it

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Mike Mulitsch
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Re: Zelda the great observation.. Atten Chuck, Scott, Wally and all the pros

Post by Mike Mulitsch » Sat Feb 06, 2016 9:16 am

Mike Mulitsch wrote:Wow , I was just going for a no or yup
Thanks
.... and how do you keep these high def screen caps , do you have a computer with a bluray player ?
A very long and tedious process because even a computer with a Blu ray player doesn't do screen caps like they do with DVDs. But if somebody else knows of a program or system that does do it easily...LET ME KNOW!! Lol.

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Re: Zelda the great observation.. Atten Chuck, Scott, Wally and all the pros

Post by AndyFish » Sat Feb 06, 2016 11:18 am

Hey Mike
I don't know how Scott does it-- but my Macs play Blu Rays-- and I use a program called VLC which allows you to do screen grabs (CTRL, COMM, SHIFT & 4).

Aussie-- Hot Toys used the movie for reference of the cowl-- I assumed they looked at the wet cowl scene which is why the ears are so floppy.

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Chuck Williams
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Re: Zelda the great observation.. Atten Chuck, Scott, Wally and all the pros

Post by Chuck Williams » Sun Feb 07, 2016 9:10 am

Great topic!! :D

I think this time frame was just when they hit their stride in the design and execution of cowl making before other forces of talent, budget, time and fabric failure all took their tolls on the look.

As Scott mentioned they are my favorites so my paint style is not an exact copy but highly influenced by the set of cowls made in the mid first season.

There are at least 3 cowls including the TV Guide/ Zelda and Purrfect Crime/ False Face time period that are remarkably similar to each other and on the small screen flow from one to the next.

At the end of the first episode of Zelda, a third cowl does make an appearance. See photo...
It's a sad cowl used in the earlier Penguin episode. It is also seen in a lot of the driving inserts and for a while I thought the right ear was lower due to the curve of the windshield creating distortion but nope, it's the cowl!

I have the benefit of their work to pick and choose the best from where these folks were working like mad and creating art on the fly. Even my favorite cowl suffered from too much padding when you first see it in the Comedy Museum Joker episode. It's sitting so high on his head it looks silly but they got it figured out in time for a shot later in the same scene where it sets the bar of how good they could look.

Actually that Hot Toys ear look happens a lot when they are pressed and not "fluffed" a bit.

Once the show took off the short cuts in construction and length of time they used them really started to show so they , to me at least, loose something and just look tired and not dynamic at all.

See other photo with a comparison of a second season cowl and my favorite first season cowl.
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Re: Zelda the great observation.. Atten Chuck, Scott, Wally and all the pros

Post by Chuck Williams » Sun Feb 07, 2016 10:17 am

Here's that early cowl I spoke of in the Batmobile.

I can tell you from experience in making cowls, you make a change to fix one issue and two other issues appear!

Once they hit mid first season they had fixed and solidified the design to it's highest level.
After that, a change here to fix one thing creates a problem with something else and each change is making the design weaker.

It's a great example of learning when to let go of a design.
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Re: Zelda the great observation.. Atten Chuck, Scott, Wally and all the pros

Post by High C » Mon Feb 08, 2016 10:13 am

Watching on Blu-Ray, I thought the radius of Adam's cowl was .000001 decimeters off in the Zelda episode than it was from the False-Face episode, but I could be wrong.
'I thought Siren was perfect for Joan.'--Stanley Ralph Ross, writer of 'The Wail of the Siren'

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Re: Zelda the great observation.. Atten Chuck, Scott, Wally and all the pros

Post by Scott Sebring » Mon Feb 08, 2016 10:57 am

High C wrote:Watching on Blu-Ray, I thought the radius of Adam's cowl was .000001 decimeters off in the Zelda episode than it was from the False-Face episode, but I could be wrong.
No. That was the difference between the hemline on Joan's skirt in "Ring Around the Riddler" and "The Wail of the Siren."

Ring...
Batman S03E02 - Ring Around the Riddler - 2066.jpg
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Wail...
Batman S03E03 - The Wail of the Siren - 0792.jpg
Batman S03E03 - The Wail of the Siren - 0810.jpg
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Re: Zelda the great observation.. Atten Chuck, Scott, Wally and all the pros

Post by High C » Mon Feb 08, 2016 1:23 pm

Fair point, Scott. 8-)
'I thought Siren was perfect for Joan.'--Stanley Ralph Ross, writer of 'The Wail of the Siren'

My hobbies include gazing at the Siren and doing her bidding, evil or otherwise.

'She had a devastating, hypnotic effect on all the men.'--A schoolmate describing Joan Collins at age 17

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Re: Zelda the great observation.. Atten Chuck, Scott, Wally and all the pros

Post by Chuck Williams » Mon Feb 08, 2016 1:37 pm

Wow...
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