Would This Be An Appropriate Bonus For Batman vs Two Face?

General goings on in the 1966 Batman World

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The Boss
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Re: Would This Be An Appropriate Bonus For Batman vs Two Face?

Post by The Boss »

AndyFish wrote: Tue Aug 08, 2017 6:21 am I'm with Dan, Ben and Sprang-- re-doing projects is the worst kind of creative tweaking there is, especially when there's no reason for it, I'm looking at you George Lucas.
George Lucas! That is a perfect example. It's true that most people have given negative reviews regarding George Lucas's new scenes which feature new made from scratch scenes that insert humor where non is called for or, the infamous decision to have Greedo shoot first. However there is one scene that is almost universally praised and it just happens to be the one scene that utilizes old footage much in the way I wish to do with the cast of Batman. I'm referring to the Jabba The Hut scene at the Millennium Falcon. Despite the fact that the footage was around 30 years old (or whatever it was at the time), Jabba appearing completely different than he does in other films and the fact Harrison Ford was no longer as young as he appeared in the footage Lucas managed to recreate this wonderful lost scene and restore it to the film. It wasn't just pasted on (as many in here expect) but, rather was first edited to fit the film. Jabba was CGIed over the original actor and new sound effects were created for his voice. Furthermore, there was the issue of Harrison Ford walking behind the actor which he could not do with Jabba because of the tail. So they cut Ford's image out and reanimated it so to appear as if he stepped on Jabba the Hutt's tail. The new Jabba the Hutt animation even show him react to being stepped on even though the original footage was shot decades earlier (just like Burt Ward would be able to play off of Adam's recordings from decades ago). The resulting scene actually showed Han Solo as he was originally portrayed. Cocky, arrogant and willing to strike first (by stepping on Jabba's tail) just as he was when he shot Greedo first in the original cut.

Almost all of Lucas's other changes were unnecessary but, this one scene prooves that it can be done and can be done well with the right creative mind in charge.
PS- LOVE the Scooby Gif. Don't mess with Casey.
Oh, so that's it. You simply care less about Burt's work than Casey's. Fair enough. To each his own.
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The Boss
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Re: Would This Be An Appropriate Bonus For Batman vs Two Face?

Post by The Boss »

BATWINGED HORNET wrote: Wed Aug 09, 2017 4:14 am Slapping performances together is not the actors actually working together, with the personal relationship and rhythm developed on the original series and off set.
First of all it would not just be "slapping performances together" anymore than is editing together scenes of a movies that were shot out of sequence and in differant locations. Sure some untalented Noob with no creativity could make a mess of it but in the hands of a true visionary there are masterpieces waiting to be made.

Second, as I stated earlier, voice actors almost never actually work together. Save for in rare occasions the actors go into the booth and record their lines individually. Often on different days and according to their own scheduling convenience. That's a fact. Any sense that you get from the completed film that these actors were all together in a room recording at the same time is a testament to the talent of the actors as well as the sound editor. If we went by the logic that a film can only be good if the actors can play off of each other then "Batman vs Two Face" should be trashed immediately and never shown to the world because Adam West and William Shatner not only did not actually work together but recorded their lines months apart. Not to mention that Burt nor Julie worked with Adam either on this project. It's the nature of the beast.
It would be some glued-up mess just to say "its Adam and Burt", but there would be nothing genuine about it, or desired by (I'm guessing) most of the 1966 Batman fanbase.
Maybe if you did it (judging soley by your insistance that you cannot see any way of creating anything enjoyable in this manor). However, I have much more faith in my own creativity.
We already have a wealth of Adam/Burt performances together without trying to force what would be a wrongheaded "together again" attempt to resurrect the TV series.
:lol: No one is trying to resurrect the series (although before Adam's death I was hoping that WB would do just that in animation). There's not enough footage for that. There is however enough to create several bonus short films/episodes by showcasing them in new, more appropriate formats. Yes it can be done and done well.
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Dan E Kool
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Re: Would This Be An Appropriate Bonus For Batman vs Two Face?

Post by Dan E Kool »

The Boss wrote: Thu Aug 10, 2017 2:28 am However there is one scene that is almost universally praised and it just happens to be the one scene that utilizes old footage much in the way I wish to do with the cast of Batman. I'm referring to the Jabba The Hut scene at the Millennium Falcon.
I'm sorry, Boss, but I don't agree that the scene you're referring to is well liked. The CGI looked good for 1997, but aged very quickly. This was new technology, after all. Digital animation has improved since then (and Lucas updated the scene as expected), but it's still a scene that never needed to be in the final film, and in my opinion, actually makes the movie less good.

Lucas was a fantastic storyteller, especially in his younger days. When it came to 'The Great Reveal,' there wasn't anyone who could do it better. Think of Who's Luke's father? or Who is Yoda? or Who is Jabba the Hutt? By adding that scene to A New Hope, the Jabba reveal is, unfortunately, ruined. Throughout those first two films, we only hear of the mighty Jabba the Hutt in terms of his threats, of the bounty hunters he's paid. In short, he's a mystery.

And then, in Jedi, we finally get to see him: this monstrous, slimy slug of a gangster, floating across the sand dunes with his party of scantily clad slaves and armored thugs. With the addition of the CGI hanger scene, that impact is lessened. Now we've already seen Jabba, slithering around Mos Eisley like a commoner.

I can't blame Lucas or pretend that I know better than him. It's his galaxy and I'm glad that he created it for you and me. BUT, as time went on, I feel he over-edited his movies. From what I understand, that's a common trait among many great writers, directors, etc. A story I've heard is that Martin Scorsese was complaining to Nicholas Pileggi (writer) that scenes from Goodfellas should have been cut - and he was making these complaints while watching the film on opening night!

At some point, the artist has to put down the brush and call it 'done.' Adding more doesn't always make something better.
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Re: Would This Be An Appropriate Bonus For Batman vs Two Face?

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The Boss wrote: Thu Aug 10, 2017 2:49 am Maybe if you did it (judging soley by your insistance that you cannot see any way of creating anything enjoyable in this manor). However, I have much more faith in my own creativity.
The Boss wrote: Thu Aug 10, 2017 2:28 am Oh, so that's it. You simply care less about Burt's work than Casey's. Fair enough. To each his own.
And THIS is just one example of how we DON'T debate on this board. Small thing to point out how these seemingly simple and benign statements usually ends up turning everything into hell around here. Never make this stuff into a finger pointing match with "you's" and interjecting one's own interpretation of where another person is supposedly coming from or start to make it personal. This is how things escalate and then I have to go back, delete posts, send messages, make reprimand, explain myself, explain myself, explain again to the offending and offended parties. Quite honestly, the original poster has had a history of this behavior and has been warned repeatedly in the past as to how we conduct ourselves on the board. Especially in instances where they have personally escalated the topic by making it personal. I don't usually broadcast disciplinary admin stuff publicly on the forum but I feel the need for clarity for the record.

Folks, don't ever start a thread with "what do you think??" without being prepared for people who don't agree. And certainlly don't try to brow beat any of it into anyone. Articulate debate is fine or even a basic opinion to the "topic" or "subject" but never the person. Any idea may be thought of as bad but we NEVER call someone an idiot for disagreeing.

These specific quotes alone I just shared by themselves won't get someone banned but having a history of escalation and not changing debate tactics to a less personal one will. After so many years of having to spend so much time playing peacekeeper behind the scenes my tolerance level for such time wasted having to play schoolmaster makes me ask if it's worth continuing with the forum. But I instantly realize that the majority of you get it and practice it and conduct yourself beautifully. This is not a business for me and although I have help, the burden of the problems with such a site fall in my lap every time.

Sorry for what has become somewhat of a rant in our "happy place" but I want everyone here to know that I'm not just being flippant about this stuff when I feel the need to take action and in some cases drastic ones to hopefully make this a better and more peaceful place to celebrate our fandom.

Sorry for the inconvenience, have a great day.

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