TO THE BATPOLES podcast #68: Season Two vs. Season One: Was the slide inevitable?

General goings on in the 1966 Batman World

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bat-rss
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TO THE BATPOLES podcast #68: Season Two vs. Season One: Was the slide inevitable?

Post by bat-rss »

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Having finished season two, we take a look back and compare it to season one. Few would dispute that the quality of the show in season two, overall, was not up to season one standards. Was that slide in quality inevitable?

Also, check the link to see a photo of US with Adam West in 1977 -- a photo that is also another exhibit in the mystery of the "Legends of the Superheroes" cowl.

And, a Bat-mailbag overflowing with YOUR thought-provoking missives!

http://tothebatpoles.libsyn.com/068-sea ... inevitable
"I'm half-demented with whimsical outrage!"
-- The Joker, in a line cut from "The Joker's Epitaph"
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Dan E Kool
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Re: TO THE BATPOLES podcast #68: Season Two vs. Season One: Was the slide inevitable?

Post by Dan E Kool »

Is it just me, or do Tim and Paul sound really chilled out in this episode? It's almost sedated compared to when you're thousands of miles apart. What happened? Were you just high on nostalgia from being in your home town? Or was there a little bit of [strictly medicinal] Bat-herb being passed around before recording? :x

The question in the title is an interesting one. I'm not sure it's one that can be answered... But I guess that's what makes it so darned interesting! My opinion is, with the path the show took, the slide in quality was inevitable, yes.

The second season had almost twice as many episodes as the first. In less than two years, Dozier produced almost 100 episodes AND a feature length film! Quality was traded for quantity, I'm afraid. I think it's safe to say that the budget wasn't doubled to reflect increased output. Otherwise, I think Nelson Riddle would have stayed on the payroll. His music (and later, the lack of it) made a big difference in the later episodes of S2 for me. Heck, maybe they could have thrown some extra cash Gorshin's way to get the REAL Riddler back on set. ;)

The second point that sealed the fate of the show is the departure of Lorenzo Semple Jr., which you also mentioned. Semple was the lifeblood of Batman and the pilot script proves it. Almost everything that made Batman Batman came out of this man's head. It's a shame that he wasn't very interested in T.V. work at the time. In interviews he says he only wanted to work in movies. Had he stayed on, I think we would have seen a very different Season 2. Although, working under the time and budget constraints that come with producing twice as much content, even with Semple I doubt we would have gotten a true Season 1 encore.
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BATWINGED HORNET
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Re: TO THE BATPOLES podcast #68: Season Two vs. Season One: Was the slide inevitable?

Post by BATWINGED HORNET »

Tim ...THANK YOU. You are among the few to acknowledge what Batman was supposed to be from the start in your Facebook comment to Paul--
...it feels really clear what the show's mission is: "you know, we're doing a kind of overly serious Batman comic book story that happens to be funny sometimes, but even an adult could watch it as adventure." It's not a sitcom at that stage.
You get what Dozier and Semple intended in January, 1966. Batman was not meant to be a sitcom or MAD magazine satire (and I've read the posts of some fans arguing that it was a sitcom from the start). Personally. I cannot find any 1965/66 document stating Batman was a sitcom or broad parody. The mood, lighting and performances of most of the first season did play like a Silver Age comic, with any humor existing as a sideline coincidence, instead of being the drive of every scene...

...or being the near total bad joke that was season three.

Since you guys are covering the third season, have you ever considered reviewing the rather frightening 1967 Dozier presentation reel of Who's Afraid of Diana Prince? It sort of gives you a picture of how women would be treated in that final season, not to mention the overall downslide into self-parody.

Here's the link: Who's Afraid of Diana Prince
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Re: TO THE BATPOLES podcast #68: Season Two vs. Season One: Was the slide inevitable?

Post by bat-rss »

Thanks. Yes, I think "it wasn't a sitcom in season one" is one of the truths our podcast is based on! Go back to Episode 12 "Batman Goes Camping" and our bafflement (having only rewatched partway into season one at that point, and not having seen the rest of it for decades) at hearing someone else call "Batman" a sitcom. Having watched season two, we now understand why someone would say that -- about season two! But if you watch, say "The Joker is Wild/Batman is Riled" (which recently has become one of my very favorite arcs, because it exemplifies the vision of what the show was intended to be, and it's just so darn GOOD), I defy anyone to call that a sitcom.

In some early episode or another, we did talk a bit about "Who's Afraid of Diana Prince." But only a bit. It was just.... too horrible. We shuddered, pulled our capes more tightly around our shoulders, and moved on.
"I'm half-demented with whimsical outrage!"
-- The Joker, in a line cut from "The Joker's Epitaph"
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Re: TO THE BATPOLES podcast #68: Season Two vs. Season One: Was the slide inevitable?

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bat-rss wrote: Thu Aug 24, 2017 1:01 am In some early episode or another, we did talk a bit about "Who's Afraid of Diana Prince." But only a bit. It was just.... too horrible. We shuddered, pulled our capes more tightly around our shoulders, and moved on.
HAHA, I don't blame you. ;)
'I thought Siren was perfect for Joan.'--Stanley Ralph Ross, writer of 'The Wail of the Siren'

My hobbies include gazing at the Siren and doing her bidding, evil or otherwise.

'She had a devastating, hypnotic effect on all the men.'--A schoolmate describing Joan Collins at age 17
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Re: TO THE BATPOLES podcast #68: Season Two vs. Season One: Was the slide inevitable?

Post by chrisbcritter »

Hope you don't mind; I took a whack at restoring your Batmobile photo:
Batmobile77.jpg
Batmobile77.jpg (125 KiB) Viewed 8619 times
The fuzzy version was the one I saw at the long-gone Antique Auto Museum in Highland Park, IL in 1976:
Copy of automuseum8-6-76 001.jpg
"To the medical eye, such childish claptrap means only one thing, young man: You need some sleep."
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bat-rss
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Re: TO THE BATPOLES podcast #68: Season Two vs. Season One: Was the slide inevitable?

Post by bat-rss »

Chris, nice work!
"I'm half-demented with whimsical outrage!"
-- The Joker, in a line cut from "The Joker's Epitaph"
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Ben Bentley
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Re: TO THE BATPOLES podcast #68: Season Two vs. Season One: Was the slide inevitable?

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bat-rss wrote: Thu Aug 17, 2017 7:03 am Having finished season two, we take a look back and compare it to season one. Few would dispute that the quality of the show in season two, overall, was not up to season one standards. Was that slide in quality inevitable?

...

http://tothebatpoles.libsyn.com/068-sea ... inevitable
Finally up to date with your show!

I think your analysis and observations of the "slide" as you put it, are right on the money for the most part. I also concur that "Joker is Wild" is as tangible a line that you can draw in the sand with regards to the Semple's intended tonality of the show.

In a nutshell, as Lorenzo remarked to Bill Dozier:
Lorenzo Semple Jnr wrote:“I wrote the most dangerous line in Bat-Poop, when I reminded writers that we must appeal on two levels: to kids & grown-ups too. I see now, appeal on sophisticated level must come from inherent juvenility of story-line.”


In the most basic terms possible, the wheels fall off when Batman becomes in on the joke, this will only become more blatant as you venture through the increasingly choppy waters of Season Three.

Season One is not without it's flaws and an abundance of warning signs that we often choose to ignore in a rose-tinted manner when comparing the three seasons in a relative sense.

Lorenzo certainly wasn't blameless in all of this. As Scott aptly phrased it:
Scott Sebring wrote:"When did Batman jump the shark? When it bit him."
If Season One into Two was a slide, Season Two into Three plummets quicker than The Puzzler's balloon trap was intended to, had those migrating birds not intervened.
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Dan E Kool
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Re: TO THE BATPOLES podcast #68: Season Two vs. Season One: Was the slide inevitable?

Post by Dan E Kool »

Ben Bentley wrote: Tue Aug 29, 2017 8:52 am Lorenzo certainly wasn't blameless in all of this. As Scott aptly phrased it:
Scott Sebring wrote:"When did Batman jump the shark? When it bit him."
Image
My knee-jerk reaction is to flip my desk and deny that that's the case (but I guess it could be).
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Re: TO THE BATPOLES podcast #68: Season Two vs. Season One: Was the slide inevitable?

Post by AndyFish »

The scholarly study of just when Batman devolves from Adventure/Camp to Camp/Sitcom to Sitcom/Parody is something we've all been curious about since we started watching the show as adults and it's what makes your podcast so great.

I wonder if it might have been easier to understand if you were watching it first run and old enough to appreciate what you were seeing, rather than seeing it as a kid or watching it via reruns which is where most of us come in. The jumbled viewing order presented by syndication made it harder to discern the transition, while the release of the DVD/Blu Rays has certainly made it easier.

Looking at the series again as I make prep to do my version of a comic book BATMAN '66 I'm going with the first episodes of the big four plus the first Mr Freeze, Bookworm and False Face as my series bible and I would argue that all of these accurately portray the truest version of what Lorenzo had in mind. Dozier I suspect was just in it for a cash grab and didn't understand at all what made the show such a hit in that first year.

Let's look at a specific scene in the first Joker arc; Batman arrives at the comedians museum and a bunch of teenage girls are excited to see Robin. As Batman gets out of the car he notices he's in a no parking zone so he starts to get back into the Batmobile to move it when a policeman comes along and tells him it's all right-- and he moves the sign.

Batman thanks him and goes into the museum.

How would this have been handled in a later season or even in the last animated version? Batman would have stood on the curb and lectured Robin about the importance of following the parking laws of Gotham City. To which Robin would have replied "Gosh, you're right Batman!" as they move the car.

But that plays against the importance of getting inside the museum to stop the Joker. The fact that Batman just thanks the officer and goes inside adds a level of drama to the Joker's actions and takes the higher road rather than taking the time to go for a cheap laugh.

And I completely agree with the sentiments above of Ben and Batwinged.
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Jimmy L. 66
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Re: TO THE BATPOLES podcast #68: Season Two vs. Season One: Was the slide inevitable?

Post by Jimmy L. 66 »

Love the Podcast, having trouble finding thru Google play. What gives?
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Re: TO THE BATPOLES podcast #68: Season Two vs. Season One: Was the slide inevitable?

Post by bat-rss »

batrunner1966 wrote: Fri Sep 01, 2017 1:52 pm Love the Podcast, having trouble finding thru Google play. What gives?
Well, GooglePlay doesn't appear to be an outlet for podcasts...
"I'm half-demented with whimsical outrage!"
-- The Joker, in a line cut from "The Joker's Epitaph"
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Re: TO THE BATPOLES podcast #68: Season Two vs. Season One: Was the slide inevitable?

Post by Ben Bentley »

bat-rss wrote: Fri Sep 01, 2017 4:37 pm
batrunner1966 wrote: Fri Sep 01, 2017 1:52 pm Love the Podcast, having trouble finding thru Google play. What gives?
Well, GooglePlay doesn't appear to be an outlet for podcasts...
In the U.S. Podcasts can now be published via GooglePlay, although i'm guessing like the UK, the Japanese version of the site perhaps isn't allowing podcast content as yet?
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Jimmy L. 66
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Re: TO THE BATPOLES podcast #68: Season Two vs. Season One: Was the slide inevitable?

Post by Jimmy L. 66 »

Google play is were in get most of my podcasts.
To the Bat poles(and a few others) I have to use iTunes on another device. Sorry, I don't mean to hijack threaD into one about podcast distribution, I thought it might have been an easy answer.
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Re: TO THE BATPOLES podcast #68: Season Two vs. Season One: Was the slide inevitable?

Post by bat-rss »

I don't know Google Play very well, but when I looked at the site the other day, I couldn't find any of the podcasts I listen to in it. I don't even see a podcast section...
"I'm half-demented with whimsical outrage!"
-- The Joker, in a line cut from "The Joker's Epitaph"
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