TO THE BATPOLES podcast #68: Season Two vs. Season One: Was the slide inevitable?

[bat-rss]

“I wrote the most dangerous line in Bat-Poop, when I reminded writers that we must appeal on two levels: to kids & grown-ups too. I see now, appeal on sophisticated level must come from inherent juvenility of story-line.”

Ben,
Where's this quote from?

[Ben Bentley]

“I wrote the most dangerous line in Bat-Poop, when I reminded writers that we must appeal on two levels: to kids & grown-ups too. I see now, appeal on sophisticated level must come from inherent juvenility of story-line.”

Ben,
Where's this quote from?

The quote from Lorenzo that I referenced is taken from a thesis by Avi Dan Santo titled "Transmedia Brand Licensing Prior to Conglomeration: George Trendle and the Lone Ranger and Green Hornet Brands, 1933-1966"

It's available here: https://repositories.lib.utexas.edu/handle/2152/3696

[robinboyblunderer]

Personally. I cannot find any 1965/66 document stating Batman was a sitcom or broad parody.
...or being the near total bad joke that was season three.

Since you guys are covering the third season, have you ever considered reviewing the rather frightening 1967 Dozier presentation reel of Who's Afraid of Diana Prince? It sort of gives you a picture of how women would be treated in that final season, not to mention the overall downslide into self-parody.

Here's the link: Who's Afraid of Diana Prince

Where did this sitcom concept originate?

One thing it definitely wasn't, was a sitcom! Get Smart was more of a sitcom.

As for the comedy, it was there from the first episode, there was just a better balance, making for a unique experience. Batman wasn't as serious as the Green Hornet or Wild Wild West but it wasn't Gilligan's Island either; it struck out its own unique territory. I think there'd been less criticism if the show had veered more towards straight action show over the years instead of comedy; it just became to broad, and ridiculous. Though at the same time, i enjoy some of that as well; like Batman counting bullets in Penguin's machine gun, the surfing contest, bad signing in Chandell's episode, the Bat-Fly Swatter.

I guess everyone has their own line that the show crossed as it got worse, but I do enjoy the surreal campiness in the third season, like the rope-trick or a Neosaurus.

Flaws and all I guess I just enjoy the show from the balanced first season through its decline, though it's easy to look back and wonder how much longer and more successful it would've been had they kept to the feel of the first season, perhaps adding in more satire such as the Penguin as Mayor episode.

cheers

[bat-rss]

I think the term "sitcom" gets used a lot because, not only did the balance get tipped toward humor and away from adventure (especially when Ross was writing), the TYPE of humor changed. Like we discussed in an early episode, Semple, in the interview on emmytvlegends.com, talks about how his vision was to have the humor arise from the situation itself. People acting dead serious about stuff that was ridiculous. But, he says, some writers wanted to include actual "jokes". More sitcommy stuff. As script editor, he apparently tried to stamp that out as much as possible, but Charles Hoffman doesn't seem to have cared.

Season one is not a sitcom. Season two is much closer to being one, it just doesn't have a laugh track.

[robinboyblunderer]

I think the term "sitcom" gets used a lot because, not only did the balance get tipped toward humor and away from adventure (especially when Ross was writing), the TYPE of humor changed. Like we discussed in an early episode, Semple, in the interview on emmytvlegends.com, talks about how his vision was to have the humor arise from the situation itself. People acting dead serious about stuff that was ridiculous. But, he says, some writers wanted to include actual "jokes". More sitcommy stuff.

I see. Yes, the show would be considered more of a classic if they'd stuck to Semple's vision; that makes a lot of sense, humor from the contrast of dead serious/ridiculous. Too bad no one reined Ross in as I do recall a lot of supporting characters with that type of humor.

[Ben Bentley]

I think the term "sitcom" gets used a lot because, not only did the balance get tipped toward humor and away from adventure (especially when Ross was writing), the TYPE of humor changed. Like we discussed in an early episode, Semple, in the interview on emmytvlegends.com, talks about how his vision was to have the humor arise from the situation itself. People acting dead serious about stuff that was ridiculous. But, he says, some writers wanted to include actual "jokes". More sitcommy stuff.

I see. Yes, the show would be considered more of a classic if they'd stuck to Semple's vision; that makes a lot of sense, humor from the contrast of dead serious/ridiculous. Too bad no one reined Ross in as I do recall a lot of supporting characters with that type of humor.

As Tim quite rightly points out, the task of reining Ross et al in during Season Two fell to Hoffman. Unfortunately for the show, he didn't appear to have the capacity to execute that kind of judgement. There are of course potentially any number of contextual reasons for his behavior/approach to script editing, but alas the damage was done. It's easy to forget that Hoffman by way of the Semple filter gave us the gift of season one's highly enjoyable Mad Hatter outing.

[Dr. Shimel]

As far as the sitcom/comedy angle, it was nominated for Outstanding Comedy Series in 1966, losing out to the last year of The Dick Van Dyke Show

FWIW, Frank Gorshin was the only actor to ever get a nomination from the show, while it was also nominated for Outstanding Sound Editing that first year as well.

[bat-rss]

As far as the sitcom/comedy angle, it was nominated for Outstanding Comedy Series in 1966, losing out to the last year of The Dick Van Dyke Show

FWIW, Frank Gorshin was the only actor to ever get a nomination from the show, while it was also nominated for Outstanding Sound Editing that first year as well.

Interesting!

[Dan E Kool]

After listening to your most recent podcast, I got to thinking about the decline of Season Two VS One and the way we describe it. Obviously we all see that something is different, but I'm not sure that calling it a Sit-Com is the way to explain what that change is.

Like you've all said, the show was obviously always intended to be funny. Dozier said so, Semple said so, and so did Adam West. It's clear from as early as the Pilot. To go on from what bat-rss said above, S2 can be characterized by a reliance on straight jokes and one-liners to get a laugh rather than allowing the situation to do it for them. Maybe because the writers felt pressured to write something funny, considering the massive hit Batman had so quickly become and the reputation it had of being "funny."

But certainly the humor of S1 was not an accident. It was always a comedy. Just because S2 isn't as funny, doesn't mean that it's more of a sit-com, right? I guess my question is, if S1 Batman is not already a situational comedy, then what kind of comedy is it?

[chrisbcritter]

Maybe satire, played very straight?

[Dan E Kool]

This was brought up again in the latest podcast, but to keep the conversation all in one place I figured I'd reply here.

Looking back at my previous post, I realize that all I'm really arguing is semantics. We all know there's a difference between S1 and the later episodes - that's not being questioned. It's just whether or not "Batman became a sitcom" is an accurate description of that change.

I'd say that the dictionary definitions of Situational Comedy (as discussed in the podcast) show that Batman was always a sitcom. As Tim and Paul point out, I think it's the baggage of that term - Sitcom - that we turn away from rather than what it actually means. A sitcom can, apparently, be a wide range of comedic styles.

Like I said, semantics.

In any case, here's an interesting site I found on the subject:

"Sitcom: What It Is, How It Works"
http://public.wsu.edu/~taflinge/sitcom.html

I haven't read through all of it, yet, but Batman certainly meets the six elements of comedy as outlined by Taflinger in his "Theory of Comedy."

1) it must appeal to the intellect rather than the emotions;

2) it must be mechanical;

3) it must be inherently human, with the capability of reminding us of humanity;

4) there must be a set of established societal norms with which the observer is familiar, either through everyday life or through the author providing it in expository material, or both;

5) the situation and its component parts (the actions performed and the dialogue spoken) must be inconsistent or unsuitable to the surrounding or associations (i.e., the societal norms); and

6) it must be perceived by the observer as harmless or painless to the participants. When these criteria have been met, people will laugh. If any one is absent, then the attempt at humor will fail.

Taflinger divides sitcoms into three categories: the action comedy, the domestic comedy, and the dramatic comedy. I think it's safe to say we can knock the domcom off our list of potentials, having to do with the average family and home life. The dramcom sounds right at first, but Batman never deals with the kinds of serious issues as described by Taflinger and the characters never develop in any meaningful way.

Which leaves only the actcom, in the realm of our dreaded Gilligan's Island, but also less goofy spoofs like the detective show (which I hadn't heard of until now) "Sledge Hammer."

Batman seems to follow the rules of an actcom, but still feels so different from the examples listed by Taflinger. Still, if not an actcom, what else?

Edit:
I watched an episode of "Sledge Hammer" on YouTube and, though it isn't as goofy as most other sitcoms, it's still more blatantly jokey than S1 Batman.

[Jim Akin]

I haven't read Taflinger or any other comedy theory, but I watched an almost embarrassing number of sitcoms in my childhood. I don't like to think of Batman as a sitcom, especially during season one, when the action/comedy balance seemed so well-honed. So I'm almost reluctant to throw this out there, but I think it's evidence that there was always an element of the sitcom tradition in the show:

In this clip from the pilot episode, Batman has just admonished Robin about "pedestrian safety" and stopped the Boy Wonder from dropping a window grate off a ledge. The clip begins with Robin's apology, followed by Exhibit A: A hokey eye-rolling musical cue that could have come from Gilligan's Island, The Brady Bunch, or countless other sitcoms. It tells the audience that what they're seeing is intentionally silly.

It's a post-production addition (like all musical elements) and the actors' performances don't wink, but I'd argue it undercuts Dozier's claim that the show's aim from Day One was to play deadly serious for laughs. Someone on the production team felt the need to telegraph a laugh there.

[Dan E Kool]

In this clip from the pilot episode, Batman has just admonished Robin about "pedestrian safety" and stopped the Boy Wonder from dropping a window grate off a ledge. The clip begins with Robin's apology, followed by Exhibit A: A hokey eye-rolling musical cue that could have come from Gilligan's Island, The Brady Bunch, or countless other sitcoms. It tells the audience that what they're seeing is intentionally silly.

Nice clip. Is that YouTube channel yours?

Another moment from Season 1 which I think is maybe more "sitcom-y" is from the first Joker episode, The Joker Is Wild, where we see an exaggerated drunkard pointing to the Joker on TV and saying, "It's my mother in law!" It's actually one of my favorite moments, but it really could have come from a more "normal" sitcom, I think.

[bat-rss]

Another moment from Season 1 which I think is maybe more "sitcom-y" is from the first Joker episode, The Joker Is Wild, where we see an exaggerated drunkard pointing to the Joker on TV and saying, "It's my mother in law!" It's actually one of my favorite moments, but it really could have come from a more "normal" sitcom, I think.

Good point. Mother-in-law jokes! That's so Borscht Belt-y, Stanley Ralph Ross could've written it!