TO THE BATPOLES podcast #70: Batgirl Comes to Gotham, Tim Goes to Laramie

General goings on in the 1966 Batman World

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TO THE BATPOLES podcast #70: Batgirl Comes to Gotham, Tim Goes to Laramie

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Our latest episode is essentially a double-feature!

First, we discuss how the Barbara Gordon iteration of Batgirl was born, in the comics and on the screen, including the eight-minute "not for broadcast" pilot and the Season Three premiere, "Enter Batgirl, Exit Penguin."

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Then Tim describes his visit to the American Heritage Center at the University of Wyoming in Laramie, where he scanned a bat-ton of Batman scripts from William Dozier's papers, and gets an answer to the question: "What are they doing THERE?"

http://tothebatpoles.libsyn.com/070-bat ... to-laramie
"I'm half-demented with whimsical outrage!"
-- The Joker, in a line cut from "The Joker's Epitaph"
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Re: TO THE BATPOLES podcast #70: Batgirl Comes to Gotham, Tim Goes to Laramie

Post by Ben Bentley »

I'm almost more excited than I should probably admit at the prospect of hearing about Tim's visit to the Dozier archive, i'm envious but in equal measure pleased that you made the effort to do so. Major TV Bat-Fan kudos for you! ;)

I should probably stop gushing and actually listen to the episode now...
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Re: TO THE BATPOLES podcast #70: Batgirl Comes to Gotham, Tim Goes to Laramie

Post by BATWINGED HORNET »

Interesting show all around! Thank you x1000 (and then some) for making the effort of accessing the Dozier archives.

Since you're getting copies of the scripts, I would love to see scans of "The Purr-Fect Crime" / "Better Luck Next Time", and "A Piece of the Action" / "Batman's Satisfaction".


About Gary Gerani: his connection to Batman 1966 dates back to the 1977 trade paperback, Fantastic Televison, which covered a large number of (you guessed it) fantastic TV series. Each entry contained a fairly detailed summary of the series origin, life and cancellation, with Batman being one of the highlighted subjects.

Although a bit dated, its a fascinating read, as it gives shines a light on how Batman was analyzed not too long after the network run (almost a decade), with little to none of the (occasionally) revisionist viewpoints seen in the decades to follow.

Gould said there's biting social commentary in season three? I guess...if said commentary in the form of Batgirl using her sassy giggling / "my woman's intuition" routine counts as biting...leaving women with rather embarrassing bite marks, if you take my meaning.

I know some Batman '66 fans like Batgirl, but she was a terrible cultural throwback at a time when TV heroines already set in motion the move toward self-sufficient, brave women usually found in movies of the period. The oft-mentioned ABC series Honey West had Anne Francis as a daring private eye, skilled in martial arts, and using her intellect to solve crimes. Moreover, the Anne Francis series made its debut in the fall of 1965, probably over a full year before Dozier considered adding Batgirl to his show, so the Honey West example of an action-oriented, tough woman was known to producers (and the public),. instead of Batgirl's "woman's crime fighter" schtick, and her fighting ability limited to slow-motion pirouettes, kicks and using the always-available thin, wooden plank or milk crate.

By late 1967, that was a major step back.

A couple of years earlier, The Avengers' Cathy Gale (played by the one and only Honor Blackman) blazed a similar trail on UK TV from 1962-64; while some might argue American TV audiences were not exposed to The Avengers during the Gale years (which would be true), I find it hard to believe TV producers were ignorant of their counterparts' work & advancements overseas. It was not uncommon for U.S. TV characters or series to take influence from, or be adapted from UK TV (e.g., in the 70s,All in the Family, Three's Company & Sanford and Son were the product of that kind of adaptation), so its rather glaring that with notable, strong females making their mark on television, Dozier, Horwitz, et al., moved in the opposite direction, particularly with a costumed superhero character.
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Re: TO THE BATPOLES podcast #70: Batgirl Comes to Gotham, Tim Goes to Laramie

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Thanks for taking the time and effort to do that, Tim. Great episode, as always.
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Re: TO THE BATPOLES podcast #70: Batgirl Comes to Gotham, Tim Goes to Laramie

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Thanks. It was fun to do. Wish Laramie were a little easier to get to!
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Re: TO THE BATPOLES podcast #70: Batgirl Comes to Gotham, Tim Goes to Laramie

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50 yrs this september since Batgirl appeared.......
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Re: TO THE BATPOLES podcast #70: Batgirl Comes to Gotham, Tim Goes to Laramie

Post by robinboyblunderer »

BATWINGED HORNET wrote: Sun Sep 10, 2017 6:33 am
I know some Batman '66 fans like Batgirl, but she was a terrible cultural throwback at a time when TV heroines already set in motion the move toward self-sufficient, brave women usually found in movies of the period.
In my opinion, Batgirl threw off the chemistry of the show.

Yvonne did a good job acting with what she was given but upset the dynamic (no pun intended) the same way a change of musician in a band can have a major effect.

She was one superhero character too many in the show. Going back to the much beloved first season, there was a good balance between comedy and action, but most of all, there was perfect acting chemistry between West and Ward and I think this underlies the entire series and supports it, even in lesser episodes, sometimes found in a line delivery and expression, the response between the actors energizing the show.

It's not just Batgirl, most attempts at adding a character later on in a series fail, see cousin Oliver in the Brady Bunch and Scrappy Doo. The show could've added Bat-Mite and it would come to the same thing.

My opinion is they didn't realize what they had at the time and made easy but poor storytelling decisions under a crazy deadline, hence the show's decline from first to second and its collapse in the third.
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Re: TO THE BATPOLES podcast #70: Batgirl Comes to Gotham, Tim Goes to Laramie

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robinboyblunderer wrote: Mon Sep 18, 2017 10:17 am
BATWINGED HORNET wrote: Sun Sep 10, 2017 6:33 am
I know some Batman '66 fans like Batgirl, but she was a terrible cultural throwback at a time when TV heroines already set in motion the move toward self-sufficient, brave women usually found in movies of the period.
In my opinion, Batgirl threw off the chemistry of the show.

Yvonne did a good job acting with what she was given but upset the dynamic (no pun intended) the same way a change of musician in a band can have a major effect.

She was one superhero character too many in the show. Going back to the much beloved first season, there was a good balance between comedy and action, but most of all, there was perfect acting chemistry between West and Ward and I think this underlies the entire series and supports it, even in lesser episodes, sometimes found in a line delivery and expression, the response between the actors energizing the show.

It's not just Batgirl, most attempts at adding a character later on in a series fail, see cousin Oliver in the Brady Bunch and Scrappy Doo. The show could've added Bat-Mite and it would come to the same thing.

My opinion is they didn't realize what they had at the time and made easy but poor storytelling decisions under a crazy deadline, hence the show's decline from first to second and its collapse in the third.
Absolutely! Batgirl's presence is probably the biggest of the several reasons why season three feels like a different TV show from the first two seasons.
"I'm half-demented with whimsical outrage!"
-- The Joker, in a line cut from "The Joker's Epitaph"
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Re: TO THE BATPOLES podcast #70: Batgirl Comes to Gotham, Tim Goes to Laramie

Post by clavierankh »

I was never bothered by Women's intuition or tea leaves or reading cards. To me that was Batgirl's way of telling Batman to mind his own business. No one ever asks Batman how he knows things. I suppose they ask Batgirl because she doesn't have her street cred yet.

Having Alfred as her confidante was probably the only way to go. It helped integrate her in to stories easier. If they could afford another character it would have been interesting to expand the role of Bonnie the Commissioner's secretary as Batgirl's police informant. Sort of a boys against the girls thing.
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Re: TO THE BATPOLES podcast #70: Batgirl Comes to Gotham, Tim Goes to Laramie

Post by robinboyblunderer »

clavierankh wrote: Mon Sep 18, 2017 4:58 pm Having Alfred as her confidante was probably the only way to go. It helped integrate her in to stories easier. If they could afford another character it would have been interesting to expand the role of Bonnie the Commissioner's secretary as Batgirl's police informant. Sort of a boys against the girls thing.
I agree about Alfred and it was usually fun seeing him have a more active role and it made sense that he knew her identity.

However, a boys against the girls thing is never good. You either have the men overconfident and are shown up by the girls which is predictable and dull or you have the boys winning and it feels like they're being needlessly harsh with the girls or chauvinistic. It just doesn't seem like a good approach on a mental nor especially a physical level. It's why we didn't get an actual fight between the Caped Crusaders and female villains. Would anyone want to see Robin punch Evilalina or whatever her name was from the Nora Clavicle episode?

Same with Batgirl. Can you picture one of Penguin's Goons clobbering her in the face with a punch? It would be horrible to watch and would instantly take the fun out of the show.

I think Batgirl, if they were determined to use her should've been relegated to special guest star, not replacing Robin but working with the Duo every so often.

Another failure of the third season was the appearance of next week's villain. I think this was mentioned in the most recent bat-podcast, wasn't it? I'm not sure.

If you were going to show the villain, you may as well have just had death traps to end an episode and have two parters. Stories never felt finished the way they had in the past and was it really effective? Those who were turning in were going to anyway, how many more viewers were enticed after seeing Milton Berle in a violet suit?

I guess it's easy to "Monday morning quarterback" the show but Semple knew what he was doing and had set up a good template for the show. They slowly deviated from it, making Batman the butt of the joke too often and I think that had an impact on West's performance, another common but accurate criticism.
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Re: TO THE BATPOLES podcast #70: Batgirl Comes to Gotham, Tim Goes to Laramie

Post by bat-rss »

BATWINGED HORNET wrote: Sun Sep 10, 2017 6:33 am Interesting show all around! Thank you x1000 (and then some) for making the effort of accessing the Dozier archives.
By the way, Hornet, we'd still love to get more info on the Batman comics fan reaction to the show when it was in production, as you mentioned in the post we read in this episode. Did these reactions show up in the comics letters pages?
"I'm half-demented with whimsical outrage!"
-- The Joker, in a line cut from "The Joker's Epitaph"
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