TO THE BATPOLES podcast #73: Frank Gorshin returns - don't blink or you'll miss him!

[bat-rss]

Frank Gorshin returns for one more round as the Riddler. Is he as good as ever, or down for the count? Does Joan Collins' appearance as Siren steal Gorshin's screen time? Is Riddler's alias Mushi Nebuchadnezzar meant as a Muhammad Ali reference? Is Batgirl way smarter than the Dynamic Duo, or is she just written that way?

In our Camping Trip, Paul notes how the brisk pace of season three episodes has abbreviated the camp moments as well.

Also, in the Bat Research Lab, we look at a late-'70s take on the '66 show from Gary Gerani's book "Fantastic Television." Plus, a metal version of Hefti's Bat-theme from 331 Erock, and your mail!

http://tothebatpoles.libsyn.com/073-fra ... l-miss-him

[AndyFish]

Good episode-- a couple of things that come of it that should be clarified.

There were fans and haters of the show in comics fandom even back in the day. The biggest Batman fan gathering was probably in the mimeographed pages of BATMANIA. Hard to come by? Here's a link to a set of them for your perusal.

BATMANIA

Batman appeared in two radio show pilots but neither were ever picked up. The first one featured a WWII era Batman who disguised his Bruce Wayne voice by affecting a british accent when he was Batman. The costume is described as a black mask with devil horns so it's influenced by the serial.

Speaking of the serial-- they were designed to be watched one episode at a time, once a week and to watch them any other way is a disservice to them. They are not designed to be binge watched which is why there was so much recap.

Unlike the first Batman radio show, the second still exists and the title of the pilot was THE MONSTER OF DUMPHREY HALL-- Batman gathers a bunch of kids together and debunks ghosts and monsters.

Batman and Robin were both prominent guest stars on the popular SUPERMAN radio show starting around 1945 and they even took over the show while the Superman actor took a vacation. There are one or two multiple part episodes that are all Batman and Robin.

Kryptonite was an invention of the radio show-- the writers introduced it to put Superman into a coma so the actor could take some time off (before they thought of adding Batman).

[Jim Akin]

Another fine podcast. Thanks especially to you (and High C) for sharing the script.

Mae West, the Vibrating Massage Table, and the fact that Betsy Boldface was once Barney are all fascinating tidbits, but the script's biggest revelation to me was the long-lost answer to the riddle posed at the end of "Enter Batgirl, Exit Penguin." As a teaser to his appearance in the following week's episode, Riddler calls Commissioner Gordon and riddles him this:

"When is a jet stream like a daffodil?"

No answer was ever given, and despite a spirited discussion and multiple guesses at the answer on an old incarnation of the '66 Batman Board, (it turns out) no one figured it out.

The riddle was never actually used in Ring Around the Riddler, of course, but it's there the script, worded slightly differently, in the pile of riddles on Gordon's desk:

"When is a jet trail like a daffodil?"

The answer? "When it leaves a yellow streak."

In the script, this is one of a handful of riddles Gordon reads aloud. Barbara solves the first couple, and then Batman & Robin arrive to help with the rest.

In the filmed version, Gordon reads just two riddles before Riddler calls his office and asks to speak with Batman, to whom he asks two more riddles. Batman supplies the answer to each riddle in turn—responses ("cold feet," "chickenhearted") that make it clear Riddler is calling him a coward. The "yellow streak" riddle would have been another of these taunts, but they didn't use it in the final production.

Riddler's end of that phone call is filmed with him in his suit and tie against a blackout background, and Gorshin makes great use of the phone handset, tossing and catching it as he tries to confound Batman.

I never noticed before, but it's obvious from the costume, set (or lack thereof) and even the trademark handset-tossing that the teaser phone call at the end of Enter Batgirl, Exit Penguin was shot as part of that same sequence. I wonder if they ever filmed Adam answering that riddle?

[Dan E Kool]

I know I say it all the time, but another great episode, guys! THANKS!

I always try to guess what your outro music will be. 'Undone' was my guess after Paul's beautiful vocal cover, but the Beach Boy's 'Good Vibrations' was in a close second after all that talk of Vibrating Massage Tables.

Not so long ago, I listened to a lot of Old Time Radio (OTR). I've listened to the second Batman radio story that Andy Fish mentioned above. It was really terrible - and not in a good way! I wouldn't recommend it, but it you *need* to hear it for yourself, I'm sure I could find the link. I got all the shows from an Archive website of some kind.

[Jim Akin]

I typed the post above as I listened -- after the episode review, during the book discussion. The outro made me laugh out loud.

[bat-rss]

I always try to guess what your outro music will be. 'Undone' was my guess after Paul's beautiful vocal cover, but the Beach Boy's 'Good Vibrations' was in a close second after all that talk of Vibrating Massage Tables.

Ooh! Maybe I need to be less obvious with the musical choices, haha. I did look around for songs with "box" in the title, but didn't find anything I liked. Simon and Garfunkel's "The Boxer"? Seemed to contemplative. Midnight Oil's "Jimmy Sharman's Boxers"? Too dark. Maybe "Living in a Box"??

[bat-rss]

Mae West, the Vibrating Massage Table, and the fact that Betsy Boldface was once Barney are all fascinating tidbits, but the script's biggest revelation to me was the long-lost answer to the riddle posed at the end of "Enter Batgirl, Exit Penguin." As a teaser to his appearance in the following week's episode, Riddler calls Commissioner Gordon and riddles him this:

"When is a jet stream like a daffodil?"

No answer was ever given, and despite a spirited discussion and multiple guesses at the answer on an old incarnation of the '66 Batman Board, (it turns out) no one figured it out.

The riddle was never actually used in Ring Around the Riddler, of course, but it's there the script, worded slightly differently, in the pile of riddles on Gordon's desk:

"When is a jet trail like a daffodil?"

The answer? "When it leaves a yellow streak."

In the script, this is one of a handful of riddles Gordon reads aloud. Barbara solves the first couple, and then Batman & Robin arrive to help with the rest.

In the filmed version, Gordon reads just two riddles before Riddler calls his office and asks to speak with Batman, to whom he asks two more riddles. Batman supplies the answer to each riddle in turn—responses ("cold feet," "chickenhearted") that make it clear Riddler is calling him a coward. The "yellow streak" riddle would have been another of these taunts, but they didn't use it in the final production.

Riddler's end of that phone call is filmed with him in his suit and tie against a blackout background, and Gorshin makes great use of the phone handset, tossing and catching it as he tries to confound Batman.

I never noticed before, but it's obvious from the costume, set (or lack thereof) and even the trademark handset-tossing that the teaser phone call at the end of Enter Batgirl, Exit Penguin was shot as part of that same sequence. I wonder if they ever filmed Adam answering that riddle?

D'oh! I recalled that the closing riddle of "Enter Batgirl, Exit Penguin" is never answered in the filmed "Ring Around the Riddler", but by the time we got to this one, I'd forgotten what the riddle was! Good catch.

[bat-rss]

Good episode-- a couple of things that come of it that should be clarified.

There were fans and haters of the show in comics fandom even back in the day. The biggest Batman fan gathering was probably in the mimeographed pages of BATMANIA. Hard to come by? Here's a link to a set of them for your perusal.

BATMANIA

Thanks, Andy. Actually, Chris Cavanaugh also pointed us to a site where they're all archived:

http://comicbookplus.com/?cid=746

We're going to have to dig into these and discuss on some future episode...

[BATWINGED HORNET]

Great podcast, guys.

Gould's theory on using comic villains with made for TV characters is a new one. I've never read that in any study or article on the series. It all begs the question if true comic fans were even following the TV series at this point--enough for ABC and/or Greenway to care.

On the subject of comic fans' opinion if the '66 series, I need to set some time aside to go storage diving into my old Bat-titles from the period, because I do recall some reader letters making less than kind remarks about the TV show.

Gorshin: I've always felt his final performance as the Riddler was just Gorshin running on fumes, much like Romero's Joker in this season. There's none of the wild, calculating villain from season one (or the movie) to be found there.

Ali: I'm not sure if the Riddler's boxing alter-ego was satirizing Muhammad Ali, but for a direct send-up of the legendary boxer, see the 1st season episode of The Monkees called "Monkees in the Ring," (1967) where Davy Jones has to face off with corrupt promoters and a VERY Ali-based fighter, rhyming and "I am the greatest" line included:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=doWOPxbP6fI starting @ 13:14

Fantastic Television's describing West's physical shape was in line with the stereotype of West as a "fatman" which gained momentum as a so-called "fact" in the 1970s. By the year of Fantastic Television's publication, the image of superhero TV or movie characters with truly impressive physiques forever changed the image of how they should appear; from Lou Ferrigno in The Incredible Hulk pilot (1977) to Christopher Reeve in Superman the Movie (1978), West was not going to get a break at all, fair or not.

[Dan E Kool]

Speaking of fairness, I thought the differences in wages each star was paid to be really interesting, too. It puts all those stories of Burt Ward's attitude on set in perspective. Frankly, I don't think we can blame the guy for complaining about lines or anything else when his salary is many times lower than the rest of the cast, despite being arguably the second (or at least third) most important character in the show.

[BATWINGED HORNET]

despite being arguably the second (or at least third) most important character in the show.

Third? Who would be above him to take 2md place of importance to the show?

[bat-rss]

despite being arguably the second (or at least third) most important character in the show.

Third? Who would be above him to take 2md place of importance to the show?

Perhaps the villain? If so, then that second-in-importance spot rotates. But among the regulars, obviously Robin is 2nd-most.

[bat-rss]

For sure, the Monkees' "champ" is much more clearly an Ali sendup than Moshi N was. I do feel that tying Moshi to Ali is a bit of a reach, but I kind of latched on to it because there's precious little else that justifies the existence of Riddler's ruse! With so little time to develop a plot, I'm not sure why they would waste time on that. I guess that's part of the reason I felt like the episode was all setup and no payoff.

Good point about the late-70s take on superhero physiques. That attitude is surely even more pronounced nowadays -- subsequent Batmen have had a more muscular look, even if it was only their rubber suit doing it for them!

Great podcast, guys.

Gould's theory on using comic villains with made for TV characters is a new one. I've never read that in any study or article on the series. It all begs the question if true comic fans were even following the TV series at this point--enough for ABC and/or Greenway to care.

On the subject of comic fans' opinion if the '66 series, I need to set some time aside to go storage diving into my old Bat-titles from the period, because I do recall some reader letters making less than kind remarks about the TV show.

Gorshin: I've always felt his final performance as the Riddler was just Gorshin running on fumes, much like Romero's Joker in this season. There's none of the wild, calculating villain from season one (or the movie) to be found there.

Ali: I'm not sure if the Riddler's boxing alter-ego was satirizing Muhammad Ali, but for a direct send-up of the legendary boxer, see the 1st season episode of The Monkees called "Monkees in the Ring," (1967) where Davy Jones has to face off with corrupt promoters and a VERY Ali-based fighter, rhyming and "I am the greatest" line included:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=doWOPxbP6fI starting @ 13:14

Fantastic Television's describing West's physical shape was in line with the stereotype of West as a "fatman" which gained momentum as a so-called "fact" in the 1970s. By the year of Fantastic Television's publication, the image of superhero TV or movie characters with truly impressive physiques forever changed the image of how they should appear; from Lou Ferrigno in The Incredible Hulk pilot (1977) to Christopher Reeve in Superman the Movie (1978), West was not going to get a break at all, fair or not.

[Dan E Kool]

despite being arguably the second (or at least third) most important character in the show.

Third? Who would be above him to take 2nd place of importance to the show?

As Tim already said above, I think the villain is the only one that's possibly more important than Robin. Without Batman and a good villain, there's no show.

[Lord Death Man]

To address a question in the Bat-Mailbag, "What is a Killer Moth anyway?"