TO THE BATPOLES #109: Louie the Lilac baffles, Bat-conference informs

General goings on in the 1966 Batman World

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High C
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Re: TO THE BATPOLES #109: Louie the Lilac baffles, Bat-conference informs

Post by High C » Fri May 10, 2019 5:40 pm

gothosmansion wrote:
Fri May 10, 2019 7:11 am
In the past, I think I considered this the better of the two Louie the Lilac episodes, which I know is akin to saying to was the better of the two times an anvil was dropped on my head. Until listening to the podcast, I didn't realize how plotless it really was.

I hope I don't get in trouble for saying this, but maybe Yvonne Craig's bare midriff is a sign that a terrible excuse for entertainment is on the way. She co-starred in one of Elvis Presley's worst movies, the wretched Kissin' Cousins, and spent a good portion of it in a two-piece. In both cases, I think it was to distract the male audience so we wouldn't notice how awful the story that we're watching actually is. Of course, she famously had on a bikini in the U.N.C.L.E. office in One Spy Too Many, and that movie was entertaining. This paragraph isn't to knock Ms. Craig, just to point out that producers may have used her obvious beauty to cover up production short-comings.
It's not unfair to wonder about that, considering in the next aired episode, an avowed feminist's two assistants are dressed in gold Greco-Roman gowns with high heels. Beyond all the obviously terrible anti-female sentiments in the Nora Clavicle episode, it makes no sense that a feminist would make her 'employees' objectify themselves, so to speak, especially because it doesn't have a purpose. If there was a reason for them to do it (to distract men while crimes were committed, for instance), it still would be exploitative, but at least there would be a reason for it.
'I thought Siren was perfect for Joan.'--Stanley Ralph Ross, writer of 'The Wail of the Siren'

My hobbies include gazing at the Siren and doing her bidding, evil or otherwise.

'She had a devastating, hypnotic effect on all the men.'--A schoolmate describing Joan Collins at age 17

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Re: TO THE BATPOLES #109: Louie the Lilac baffles, Bat-conference informs

Post by High C » Sat May 11, 2019 5:42 am

Dr. Shimel wrote:
Thu May 09, 2019 4:55 pm
High C wrote:
Thu May 09, 2019 10:09 am
Eisner has suggested that his appearances were due partly to burning off an ABC contract. I don't know if there exists any documentation for that. In any event, I suspect the filler had to do with the fact they wanted to limit Berle's screen time because he was known to blow takes and the schedules were so tight.

I'll admit, I spent way too much time on this, but I unofficially clocked the amount of screen time (sans being in the background of the fights) Berle had in the two eps. He had 6:32 in the first and 6:40. Compare this to Frank Gorshin, who clocked in at 9:05 in his lone season 3 ep. So what I'm saying is that they were trying to work around Berle, rather than work the ep through him as they would with Gorshin.

I suspect 'lilac time' was an attempt to give Berle a 'moment,' to use a line you guys often have used.
While I'm loath to quote from Wikipedia, this one sentence about Berle in his bio plays into the possible reluctance of the producers to have him on the set any longer than they had to: "Berle's long reputation for taking control of an entire television production—whether invited to do so or not—was a cause of stress on the set."

Many here are familiar with Berle's notorious appearance on SNL in which he alienated everyone enough with his arrogance that Lorne Michaels kept that episode out of the syndication package.
I had forgotten about that SNL gig. That's an excellent point. I can't find it, but I remember someone connected with the show once saying that Berle put them behind schedule in the first shoot by signing tons of autographs while they were filming in LA's Griffith Park (the so-called flower children scenes).
'I thought Siren was perfect for Joan.'--Stanley Ralph Ross, writer of 'The Wail of the Siren'

My hobbies include gazing at the Siren and doing her bidding, evil or otherwise.

'She had a devastating, hypnotic effect on all the men.'--A schoolmate describing Joan Collins at age 17

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Re: TO THE BATPOLES #109: Louie the Lilac baffles, Bat-conference informs

Post by BATWINGED HORNET » Sat May 11, 2019 5:54 am

epaddon wrote:
Thu May 09, 2019 8:19 pm
Do we know if the replacement of Riddle with May a case of deciding a new sound was needed for Season 3 in terms of the format or a case of Riddle "moving on" and necessitating the replacement? Riddle I know spent the bulk of the 67-68 season doing all the scores for the Ron Ely "Tarzan" series.
It seemed Dozier was trying to put a fresh face on every part of the show going into season three; if he believed the series was on life support at the end of season two, then from a creative standpoint, new music from a different composer would be just as important to the change process as the introduction of Batgirl and cutting the regular cliffhanger format.

May was good for his type of sound, but his Batgirl-inspired cues were too "of the moment," in other words, it had a "trying to do this 60's thing" with the music, instead of the arguably more timeless Riddle cues. If a full TV soundtrack ever sees the light of day, I would listen to the 3rd season material just out of curiosity (sound quality), but I imagine it would be a one-time experience.
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Re: TO THE BATPOLES #109: Louie the Lilac baffles, Bat-conference informs

Post by THE BATPHONE! » Sat May 11, 2019 5:59 am

I always thought that Louie the Lilac had the potential to become a bad villain, but was let down my poor scripts! But I guess this is coming from a guy who loved season 3 as a kid, so the nostalgia for Louie is probably clouding my view of him! About the music, I prefer Riddle's score much more. Although I like some of Billy May's cues, most of them sound too sixties to me. I guess even Riddle's music had a lot of sixties influence, but it didn't sound nearly as surfer as I think the May score did.
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Re: TO THE BATPOLES #109: Louie the Lilac baffles, Bat-conference informs

Post by Ben Bentley » Mon May 13, 2019 9:36 am

A fun episode as always gentlemen. I'm glad to hear that there was a reasonable smattering of '66 content at the BGU Batman Conference. This is definitely an event I would have loved to have attended or even potentially participated in but unfortunately it just wasn't feasible in terms of timing a suitable trip.

In terms of "Louie's Lethal Lilac Time"...***long exhale of breath***... I won't re-iterate some of the thoughts and observations that people have already articulately expressed in this thread already. I will add though that I really do feel like this episode is one of those glaring examples within Season Three where Adam is struggling to feign interest in the words on the page. This is somewhat telling as to Adam's awareness of where the show was now at in as much that this episode provided both Adam and Burt with statistically much more screen-time out of costume that Adam (in particular) had been urging Dozier/Horwitz for throughout the seemingly never ending second season and into the third.

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Re: TO THE BATPOLES #109: Louie the Lilac baffles, Bat-conference informs

Post by dell » Mon May 13, 2019 10:42 am

This was just an awful episode for me. Milton Berle is boring as a villain. You would think it should work, but it clearly didn't. Upgrading Lotus to be the villain would have been a good move. Give her a decent motive and this would have been a good season 3 episode. That ain't saying much, but way better than the train wreck we got.
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Re: TO THE BATPOLES #109: Louie the Lilac baffles, Bat-conference informs

Post by bat-rss » Thu May 16, 2019 4:45 am

Ben Bentley wrote:
Mon May 13, 2019 9:36 am
A fun episode as always gentlemen. I'm glad to hear that there was a reasonable smattering of '66 content at the BGU Batman Conference. This is definitely an event I would have loved to have attended or even potentially participated in but unfortunately it just wasn't feasible in terms of timing a suitable trip.
Glad to finally see a comment about my presentation on the conference! Was hoping to see more discussion here about that. Glad you all liked our Louie discussion, but any other thoughts about that part of the episode, anyone?

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Re: TO THE BATPOLES #109: Louie the Lilac baffles, Bat-conference informs

Post by High C » Fri May 17, 2019 9:36 am

bat-rss wrote:
Thu May 16, 2019 4:45 am
Ben Bentley wrote:
Mon May 13, 2019 9:36 am
A fun episode as always gentlemen. I'm glad to hear that there was a reasonable smattering of '66 content at the BGU Batman Conference. This is definitely an event I would have loved to have attended or even potentially participated in but unfortunately it just wasn't feasible in terms of timing a suitable trip.
Glad to finally see a comment about my presentation on the conference! Was hoping to see more discussion here about that. Glad you all liked our Louie discussion, but any other thoughts about that part of the episode, anyone?
I'm sorry for not giving feedback earlier, Tim, on this part of the episode. I appreciate your diligence in attending (from so far away) and reporting on the conference to all of us. Sadly, the content of the conference itself didn't grab me.

I have nothing against the Batmobile enthusiasts, but personally, the car interests me not a whit. Nor do the Bat-offshoot songs of the 1960s, although finding out Zappa worked on a Burt 'track' was quite fascinating.

I too, was quite disappointed to find out about the inaccuracies and the shallowness of that presentation that purported to be about the impact of the show in the 1960s. You easily could have done that talk the right way, Tim. It's unfortunate it was such a '66 '101' talk, and I'm baffled as to how he came up with Lyle Waggoner being the top choice. Joel Eisner's original Bat-Book in 1986 made it clear that Adam and Burt were the only ones legitimately considered. Dozier told Eisner that Waggoner and Deyell were tested only as a formality to satisfy the ABC suits, and so the costume authenticator got that detail right, no doubt.

I admit the original 'Bat-tunic' itself is an interesting find, but I cannot lie--I'd be much more enthused if a certain other 'tunic' from the show turned up. Hint: it was the color of silver.
'I thought Siren was perfect for Joan.'--Stanley Ralph Ross, writer of 'The Wail of the Siren'

My hobbies include gazing at the Siren and doing her bidding, evil or otherwise.

'She had a devastating, hypnotic effect on all the men.'--A schoolmate describing Joan Collins at age 17

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Re: TO THE BATPOLES #109: Louie the Lilac baffles, Bat-conference informs

Post by gothosmansion » Fri May 17, 2019 2:52 pm

bat-rss wrote:
Thu May 16, 2019 4:45 am
Ben Bentley wrote:
Mon May 13, 2019 9:36 am
A fun episode as always gentlemen. I'm glad to hear that there was a reasonable smattering of '66 content at the BGU Batman Conference. This is definitely an event I would have loved to have attended or even potentially participated in but unfortunately it just wasn't feasible in terms of timing a suitable trip.
Glad to finally see a comment about my presentation on the conference! Was hoping to see more discussion here about that. Glad you all liked our Louie discussion, but any other thoughts about that part of the episode, anyone?
I enjoyed hearing you discuss the conference, but since I didn't get to experience it first hand, I didn't really feel like I had anything to add. I would have liked to have attended.

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Re: TO THE BATPOLES #109: Louie the Lilac baffles, Bat-conference informs

Post by High C » Sun May 19, 2019 6:18 am

gothosmansion wrote:
Fri May 10, 2019 7:11 am

I hope I don't get in trouble for saying this, but maybe Yvonne Craig's bare midriff is a sign that a terrible excuse for entertainment is on the way. She co-starred in one of Elvis Presley's worst movies, the wretched Kissin' Cousins, and spent a good portion of it in a two-piece. In both cases, I think it was to distract the male audience so we wouldn't notice how awful the story that we're watching actually is. Of course, she famously had on a bikini in the U.N.C.L.E. office in One Spy Too Many, and that movie was entertaining. This paragraph isn't to knock Ms. Craig, just to point out that producers may have used her obvious beauty to cover up production short-comings.
I think you have a valid point here. I think the back half of season 3 became a contest to showcase Yvonne's body at the expense of her characters, particularly Batgirl, in lieu of better scripts.
'I thought Siren was perfect for Joan.'--Stanley Ralph Ross, writer of 'The Wail of the Siren'

My hobbies include gazing at the Siren and doing her bidding, evil or otherwise.

'She had a devastating, hypnotic effect on all the men.'--A schoolmate describing Joan Collins at age 17

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Re: TO THE BATPOLES #109: Louie the Lilac baffles, Bat-conference informs

Post by bat-rss » Mon May 20, 2019 10:33 pm

High C wrote:
Sun May 19, 2019 6:18 am

I think you have a valid point here. I think the back half of season 3 became a contest to showcase Yvonne's body at the expense of her characters, particularly Batgirl, in lieu of better scripts.
Sounds like all they had left was appeal to the Dirty Old Man Market. But if Dozier had no interest in a fourth season, I wonder why they even bothered, haha

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Re: TO THE BATPOLES #109: Louie the Lilac baffles, Bat-conference informs

Post by bat-rss » Mon May 20, 2019 10:38 pm

High C wrote:
Fri May 17, 2019 9:36 am
I'm sorry for not giving feedback earlier, Tim, on this part of the episode. I appreciate your diligence in attending (from so far away) and reporting on the conference to all of us. Sadly, the content of the conference itself didn't grab me.
Sorry, maybe I got my back up a bit too much. Just was hoping that part got noticed. Thanks also, GothosMansion!
High C wrote:
Fri May 17, 2019 9:36 am
I too, was quite disappointed to find out about the inaccuracies and the shallowness of that presentation that purported to be about the impact of the show in the 1960s. You easily could have done that talk the right way, Tim.
If I'd been able to sign up further ahead of time (I was held up by questions about my day-job schedule), and if I'd known John S Drew wasn't going to make it, I might have done some kind of presentation myself! But I'm sure I wouldn't have done anything that elementary. I don't think most of the people there needed THAT elementary a talk on '66. I'd have tried to find something specific to say about the show. Maybe I would have gone straight to "myths about the show" (fourth season, Chandell ratings, etc). Not sure.

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Re: TO THE BATPOLES #109: Louie the Lilac baffles, Bat-conference informs

Post by BATWINGED HORNET » Wed May 22, 2019 9:51 am

gothosmansion wrote:
Fri May 17, 2019 2:52 pm
bat-rss wrote:
Thu May 16, 2019 4:45 am
Ben Bentley wrote:
Mon May 13, 2019 9:36 am
A fun episode as always gentlemen. I'm glad to hear that there was a reasonable smattering of '66 content at the BGU Batman Conference. This is definitely an event I would have loved to have attended or even potentially participated in but unfortunately it just wasn't feasible in terms of timing a suitable trip.
Glad to finally see a comment about my presentation on the conference! Was hoping to see more discussion here about that. Glad you all liked our Louie discussion, but any other thoughts about that part of the episode, anyone?
I enjoyed hearing you discuss the conference, but since I didn't get to experience it first hand, I didn't really feel like I had anything to add. I would have liked to have attended.
Same here, but I certainly appreciated your participation at the conference.
Beneath Wayne Manor

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