The Dumbing Down of Batman

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robinboyblunderer
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The Dumbing Down of Batman

Post by robinboyblunderer »

I just watched the clip when the Joker and his gang paralyze the Dynamic Duo with sea urchin spines. And Batman's response is funny (to a degree).

But I feel like this is the perfect example of how they ruined the character; why would he say something so oblivious to their situation? I think in early seasons he would've identified what they'd been stunned with and later after they escaped tell Robin matter of factly about the epsom salt bath or whatever in the Batcave, one of those interesting asides he'd tell Robin and/or Alfred.

I think this is what Semple warned about maybe, that the character needed to be played seriously but not as a punchline.

I'm glad the Clavicle episode wasn't filmed as scripted, as watching the Caped Crusader lose to a bunch of female wrestlers would be the ultimate indignity.

Another moment that always stood out to me is shaking the Joker's hand. Even Robin thinks it's a stupid idea! Maybe he'd do it if the Joker was paroled as part of a fresh start, but they just had a big fight with him and Catwoman's men!

This dumbing down adds to the overall depressed and pathetic feel of the final season. Gone is the Batman who could be part of clever and funny scripts yet still menace the Riddler and his gang with his shadow in Give Em the Axe, single handedly defeat the gang and rescue Robin. Now he's shaking hands with the Joker and falling for the oldest trick in the book.

There's a lot of flaws with the third season but perhaps the biggest is the continued ruination of Batman's character.

Thoughts?
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John Mack
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Re: The Dumbing Down of Batman

Post by John Mack »

I'm sure I'll agree with you, but my old mind is slipping a bit. What did Batman say?
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robinboyblunderer
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Re: The Dumbing Down of Batman

Post by robinboyblunderer »

Something about soaking themselves in hot water and epsom salts to counteract the poison. Obviously this isn't something viable in the moment so why would Batman even bring it up?

Another moment is when they cover their eyes and enter the ladies changing room in Catwoman's Dressed To Kill. How were they supposed to achieve anything? The models watch them bumble around and apologize to objects they bump into.

Oh well.
cammy85
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Re: The Dumbing Down of Batman

Post by cammy85 »

Most of the season was a parody than anything. Why would Bruce Wayne chair the surfing club or even the boxing commission?

And yeah, that shaking hands with the Joker makes no sense. Whether he was coerced or not, he did just commit assault and battery not just to Batman and Robin; but Little Louie Groovy as well.
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High C
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Re: The Dumbing Down of Batman

Post by High C »

I completely concur but I would argue it began in season 2 and reached epidemic stage in S3.

Just think about the first aired arc of season 2. It takes Batman so long to figure out Alan A. Dale just might be one of Archer's minions. Bruce Wayne is an expert on literature, and can even correct the Puzzler on Shakespeare quotations, but was baffled by this.

And it isn't only the stupidity, although I'll grant you shaking Joker's hand even bugged me as a kid! How about when he MUST fight Riddler because his honor and courage has been questioned. What happened to sticks and stones, etc.

Basically, they would ignore Batman and Robin's innate character traits for either a plot point or a dumb punchline once Semple was out of the picture.
'I thought Siren was perfect for Joan.'--Stanley Ralph Ross, writer of 'The Wail of the Siren'

My hobbies include gazing at the Siren and doing her bidding, evil or otherwise.

'She had a devastating, hypnotic effect on all the men.'--A schoolmate describing Joan Collins at age 17
robinboyblunderer
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Re: The Dumbing Down of Batman

Post by robinboyblunderer »

High C wrote: Sat Sep 28, 2019 12:34 pm How about when he MUST fight Riddler because his honor and courage has been questioned. What happened to sticks and stones, etc.

Basically, they would ignore Batman and Robin's innate character traits for either a plot point or a dumb punchline once Semple was out of the picture.
That's a good point and that always bothered me too. Batman and Robin are continually insulted by their enemies, why would this particular moment have him enter the ring? As if anyone would doubt his courage...!

And what was the Riddler's plan anyway? Unless I'm forgetting something he doesn't have one at this point.

If not for his gang and the metal filings Batman would've wiped him out in two blows. So what was he thinking? He seems surprised when he's told about the filings in his glove. Hey! I just realized in his final appearance on the show the Riddler could be even stupider than Batman. I thought he was supposed to be in charge of his gang, not a clueless idiot whose big scheme is to take on Batman, one on one in a boxing ring.


I agree, it began in Season 2 but definitely hit its nadir in Season 3.
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High C
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Re: The Dumbing Down of Batman

Post by High C »

robinboyblunderer wrote: Sat Sep 28, 2019 7:44 pm
High C wrote: Sat Sep 28, 2019 12:34 pm How about when he MUST fight Riddler because his honor and courage has been questioned. What happened to sticks and stones, etc.

Basically, they would ignore Batman and Robin's innate character traits for either a plot point or a dumb punchline once Semple was out of the picture.
That's a good point and that always bothered me too. Batman and Robin are continually insulted by their enemies, why would this particular moment have him enter the ring? As if anyone would doubt his courage...!
In fact, for all of Stanley Ralph Ross' obvious flaws in terms of not understanding Semple's vision for the character of Batman, including the Joker handshake scene and numerous others, even he got it right once later in season 3 when Shame is lobbing insults at Batman and he just keeps taking them in stride, (paraphrasing) 'Batman, your mother wore army boots,' 'Yes, and she found them quite comfortable.' Granted SRR got a gag out of it, but at least it was in character.
And what was the Riddler's plan anyway? Unless I'm forgetting something he doesn't have one at this point.

If not for his gang and the metal filings Batman would've wiped him out in two blows. So what was he thinking? He seems surprised when he's told about the filings in his glove. Hey! I just realized in his final appearance on the show the Riddler could be even stupider than Batman. I thought he was supposed to be in charge of his gang, not a clueless idiot whose big scheme is to take on Batman, one on one in a boxing ring.
I concur. This is a separate issue, but also a problem with season 3 in that the villains' plans aren't to make or steal money, they are to create stupid set pieces for Charles Hoffman and Co.

Let's face it. The plot in Ring should've been to have The Siren hypnotize the favored boxers and command them to take dives. Riddler bets on the underdogs and cleans up. Easy-peasy.
'I thought Siren was perfect for Joan.'--Stanley Ralph Ross, writer of 'The Wail of the Siren'

My hobbies include gazing at the Siren and doing her bidding, evil or otherwise.

'She had a devastating, hypnotic effect on all the men.'--A schoolmate describing Joan Collins at age 17
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BATWINGED HORNET
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Re: The Dumbing Down of Batman

Post by BATWINGED HORNET »

High C wrote: Sat Sep 28, 2019 8:05 pm
Let's face it. The plot in Ring should've been to have The Siren hypnotize the favored boxers and command them to take dives. Riddler bets on the underdogs and cleans up. Easy-peasy.
Its a good idea, but that would have been too mature for flying saucer/deadly bees/fruit flies/surfing/wind-up mice/human knot season three. Exchange Siren's power for her making under the table pay-offs and its practically a plot from Naked City or another 60s police drama, and yeah, that was never going to fly in season three.

Regarding the dumbing down of Batman, well, for some reason--despite the decline in ratings during season two, Dozier and company believed going in a more ridiculous direction was the right choice, as if he finally bought into the era criticisms that she show was just silly, therefore he would "up" the ridiculous elements.

Fans ae entitled to like whatever part (or all) of the series they choose, but in the past 40 or so years, the legacy of the series was not helped by some defending season three as if that was the tone of the entire series all along. What future generations would ever bother exploring to series, if they samples season three first, and were led to believe it had been that way since the pilot? Not many, I'm guessing.

Old TV series weather analysis when reviewers and/or fans are willing to point out and place the bad episodes / seasons into its deserved compartment. Star Trek (the original series) fans have never had a problem doing that with certain third season episodes, and in that way, it brings the focus back to what was good and/or great, since that-was the creative aim for the producers.
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