TO THE BATPOLES #183: Bat-Costumes' Dynamic Duo: Chuck and Lynne Williams

General goings on in the 1966 Batman World

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bat-rss
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TO THE BATPOLES #183: Bat-Costumes' Dynamic Duo: Chuck and Lynne Williams

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A huge aspect of the Batman show is the colorful costumes, overseen by designer Jan Kemp. Sadly, Kemp is no longer with us, and his records, if they exist, are not easily available, so if you want to make a really accurate Batman ’66 replica costume, some detective work is required. Chuck and Lynne Williams have done just that, making patterns from original costumes owned by collectors, tracking down existing supplies of fabrics that are no longer made, and more. This time, we hear from this dynamic duo about their detective work and what they’ve learned about how the costumes were made, what happened when the prop department needed to get involved (for example, the Mad Hatter’s mesmerizer hat), why Batman’s cowl and cape tended to turn purple over time, and more.

Plus, the Alfred Music Marching Band version of the theme, and your mail about the Thirteenth Hat script and more.

Listen here
"I'm half-demented with whimsical outrage!"
-- The Joker, in a line cut from "The Joker's Epitaph"
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Chuck Williams
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Re: TO THE BATPOLES #183: Bat-Costumes' Dynamic Duo: Chuck and Lynne Williams

Post by Chuck Williams »

Thanks so much Tim!! Lynne and I had a great time!
LOVE the marching band version!!!!!
Quick, Everyone, Flee for your lives, into the street!!!!

http://www.etsy.com/shop/WilliamsStudio ... eller_info
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Jim Akin
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Re: TO THE BATPOLES #183: Bat-Costumes' Dynamic Duo: Chuck and Lynne Williams

Post by Jim Akin »

I've had a really busy year, and I'm way behind on all podcast listening, including To The Batpoles. The timing was right to catch this installment right when it dropped, and I really enjoyed it. The description of the way Adam donned the cowl was new to me, and it would be very hard to put all the emotion behind that moment into writing; hearing it "in person" was fantastic, and surprisingly moving. :)

Thanks to all involved.
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AndyFish
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Re: TO THE BATPOLES #183: Bat-Costumes' Dynamic Duo: Chuck and Lynne Williams

Post by AndyFish »

I thought Chuck and Lynne were great-- I was disappointed that neither had the Midwestern accents I was certain they had. Lynne was especially smooth and when she revealed that she really isn't all that big a fan of the show I laughed out loud. Holy revelation! Chuck wanted a ROBIN costume before Batman??? What the heck, Chuck? Robin, the Boy Target?? I'm enlightened but disappointed nonetheless. ;)
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Chuck Williams
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Re: TO THE BATPOLES #183: Bat-Costumes' Dynamic Duo: Chuck and Lynne Williams

Post by Chuck Williams »

Thanks Guys!!!
I was suffering from the tail end of a sinus infection when we did this and was nervous as Hell!!!
I learned I say "um" a lot but I could change that to an "oh ya" with a proper WI sound for ya Andy! LOL!!!

Yep, Lynne is a rockstar! I told Tim that at least Lynne speaks in complete sentences and doesn't ramble on like I do.

It was a nice conversation and we are very happy we did it. :)
Quick, Everyone, Flee for your lives, into the street!!!!

http://www.etsy.com/shop/WilliamsStudio ... eller_info
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Ben Bentley
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Re: TO THE BATPOLES #183: Bat-Costumes' Dynamic Duo: Chuck and Lynne Williams

Post by Ben Bentley »

I cannot wait to give this episode a listen! This is heading straight to the top of my listening queue once we hit the road this week.
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Re: TO THE BATPOLES #183: Bat-Costumes' Dynamic Duo: Chuck and Lynne Williams

Post by Scott Sebring »

I listened to this while driving up North to attend Ben's wedding (it was great ,BTW, Congrats, buddy!). By far, my favorite episode of this podcast ever. But at the same time, my wife Vickie would see me cringe in frustration while listening time to time. So, I'm going to share those thoughts as well.
The high points:

1) LYNNE!!!! I'm so glad that so many people get to finally hear her and her perspective. She is the secret weapon of WS2. Her background, insight and talent is what takes all of the forensics and brings them to a stellar reality. She is the master chef that puts all of the ingredients into a perfect blend. This is not to take anything away from what Chuck does but I feel most people who follow anything about WS2 are well aware of his talents. I was just glad that people got to hear what makes them such a lethal team.

2) Memory lane. Listening to them talk about the journey that has brought them to this point of their career was yet both familiar and new.

3) Anything they had to talk about or share. I could listen to them all day and week.

The low points:
I apologize in advance but I have to finally say this about the podcast series. First a quick disclaimer: kudos that it's being done and the brothers are enjoying themselves doing it and it's been going on for so long. But there is always room for improvement and I don't want my critique to be taken has having any malice behind it. Also, everybody's own experience and mileage may vary of their expectations or entertainment with the podcast.

1) The hosts don't seem to do either enough homework or significant prep for the show(s). Especially when it comes to when they bring on a guest. They read a script or a rewrite of a script but rarely have any other notes about that episode handy when they go to record. I have had heard at least one episode where one brother hadn't even read the script before recording. What? Way too often (feels like almost in every episode these days) I'll hear, "I don't have my notes on that one so I wouldn't know, but I guess..." or "I didn't get a chance to look into this episode in the Dozier files before we started this episode, but I would guess..." I'm sorry but one could put the show on hold, pause or a "please stand by" double click on a handy PDF, fact check , come back, continue the conversation with some real meat and edit out the gap before airing. It's not even just Dozier file detailed stuff, it can be a simple Google check for when both goes, "I don't know what that is, but I guess..." Those moments just make the hosts seem lazy and the show drops in professionalism and interest for me. That wouldn't seem like such a bad thing if it were just two DJs sitting around a table at their mics trying to fill up time on their morning show saying, "Hey, remember that Batman show?" But this podcast was and has been presented as a more academic approach to examining and dissecting the making and legacy of the TV program and not just two brothers sitting on a couch just guessing at stuff. Maybe my expectations are too high about these things but I have found it so frustrating over the years, I rarely listen anymore as I have not witnessed any growth or effort to do better on that front.

2) About the lack of prep before speaking to a guest. I find it insulting to the guest (whether they take insult with it or not) when the interviewing host doesn't even do the slightest bit of research on their guest so they can be a little more familiar and have somewhat knowledgeable questions. Google is a handy thing and just a little bit of digging or rather clicking can make those interviews so much better. Two licks revealed to me:
http://williamsstudio2.com/about-us/lyn ... abricator/
http://williamsstudio2.com/about-us/chu ... -sculptor/
This would have been great to have read before someone talked to them. "So what do you do?" "Can people buy your stuff?" "What's the cowl made out of? Is it all fabric?" Are the sort of uneducated questions I expect from someone on a Con floor with a cameraperson and a mic who knows absolutely nothing about who they are talking to or that they were ever going to encounter them. That is so different from being a host with a guest. That puts all the pressure on the guest to come up with the content while it seems the host is making up questions as they go along. Just a bit of familiarity would give it a "conversational but with quality content" aspect to it. Something like, "Lynne, I read that you worked on some movies like 'Honey I blew up the Kids' and 'Bill and Ted's Excellent Adventure.' Were there any odd challenges or things learned on those that might relate to a production like Batman or in recreating these costumes?" or 'Chuck, I saw on your store, Williams Studio 2 over on Etsy, that you offer a Shakespeare bust that you say in the description was 'created after tracking down the original 170 year old bust that the TV show bust was created from.' Wow, how did you figure that one out?" Instead, we get:
"So um, if people like want to order a costume or something, how do they find you?"
"On Etsy, um, Williams Studio 2."
"Hmm, okay..cool" (sounding surprised to find this out)

In my opinion, this really needs to get better. Sorry, but if one sees a friend drinking poison, that person is better off letting the other know so. And to be honest, the items I have brought up here in general seem to be the most common offline complaints whenever people discuss the show over the years.

Last but not least. I ask that this post is not included in any way on the podcast. In the past, the rebuttals on the shows are often very one sided and often more defensive. If someone from the podcast takes issue with what I've said or perceived intent, I am more than open to chat about it with them either here, PM, email, phone call, Skype, Zoom or other (I'll learn another program to do so) if it will help to clear anything up. Again, I do not condemn or hate the show or have anything personal against either brother. They have been more than kind to me in the past. I just hope things can grow from here.
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Chuck Williams
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Re: TO THE BATPOLES #183: Bat-Costumes' Dynamic Duo: Chuck and Lynne Williams

Post by Chuck Williams »

Thanks Scott!!

I agree 100%! Lynne is the missing ingredient, secret sauce and undercover artist that really makes all the difference.
I can't begin to tell you how much I have learned from her.
She has an amazing range of skills and a love of the history of her craft.
She is still teaching me how to use words. I'll get there...

It was fun for us to walk down memory lane too! Man time flies!!!

This was our first pod cast and thankfully it was fun to do! I hate the sound of my voice! The voices in my head are bad enough!
We hope to do more things publicly as the world starts waking up after the pandemic.

I also wanted to do a shout out to Mr. Bentley!! He went and got himself hitched!!!!! Congratulations my friend! She's an AWESOME young lady!
Quick, Everyone, Flee for your lives, into the street!!!!

http://www.etsy.com/shop/WilliamsStudio ... eller_info
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P “Junior Batman” Y
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Re: TO THE BATPOLES #183: Bat-Costumes' Dynamic Duo: Chuck and Lynne Williams

Post by P “Junior Batman” Y »

Scott,

Thanks for taking the time to critique the podcast. Clearly you care about it or you wouldn’t take the time and care to write such an extensive critique.

We can always do better on fact-checking and certainly I can do much better regarding preparation. (I’ll speak almost exclusively for myself here; while obviously I know Tim really well, I ain’t him.) We try to keep up with a biweekly schedule and sometimes my work schedule and family obligations make prepping adequately next to impossible. Perhaps the answer here is for us to cut back to a monthly release schedule, or perhaps to pull the podcast altogether if we’re not living up to expectations. I am usually the underprepared culprit, and I know it’s unprofessional (though I’m not a professional podcaster; this has always been a fun avocation for me). I would never show up to one of the courses I teach unprepared for all the eventualities I could think of. We’ve done many “live” Google checks during recordings but I’m sure we could do more.

Scott, if I have ever been dismissive on the podcast, of you or anyone else who writes to the show or posts on the board about it, I personally apologize for that as well. There are times I’ve taken on opinions I disagree with, and held my ground because I still disagree and have tried to give my reasons. That’s really different from making a factual mistake and being corrected, and I don’t believe we’ve dismissed any fact-checks from listeners (though if you have an example, that would be super helpful). You suggest in your post that you find our dismissiveness so consistent that you were concerned that we would dismiss your comments here on the Board if we responded to them on the podcast. I respectfully disagree with that speculation in the strongest possible terms. I respect your opinion and have a lot of admiration for what you do on the board and your own meticulous research, and I think we would have given your critique the attention it deserves, just as I’m trying to do here (and succeeding in part at least, I hope). But you made the decision you made, so any prediction I make about what we would have done/not done on the podcast is a counterfactual at best. In the future we will try to do better at showing the same level of respect to all our listeners who disagree with our opinions or have a fact-check to offer. Certainly we're conscious of it specifically as a problem now.

As I think back, I am certain I made some eye-rolling remarks about the critique of our myriad “ums” and “ahs,” and Scott, if that was your critique (I really can’t remember now), I apologize, and if not, I apologize to whoever posted it (I don’t know how to find it within the board but can still try look for it—I think it was posted maybe two years ago?). That was bad form on my part, and I regret it.

Neither Tim nor I had heard any of your criticisms before, though as you’ve probably noticed from earlier in this post, I’ve been feeling badly about my low preparation level for too many of our recent podcasts especially. Maybe this means that no one feels compelled to criticize or offer advice—because we’re that uniformly dismissive of criticism? We’ll work on that. I hope there are more good things for listeners to find in the podcast than what you mention, that a) we seem to be having a good time and b) we’re recording it at all. But I will take your constructive comments seriously and try to improve.

Sincerely,
Paul
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Scott Sebring
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Re: TO THE BATPOLES #183: Bat-Costumes' Dynamic Duo: Chuck and Lynne Williams

Post by Scott Sebring »

Thanks for the respectful and thought out response, Paul. All of your points and concerns are noted. It has been pointed out to me that I didn't point out all the good stuff about the podcast to balance out the critique. "Sorry about that, chief."

I don't have much time here to go into each thing you've brought up but I will at least address the following.

Possibly a monthly schedule could yield a better result. Quality over quantity? Maybe? Ditching the podcast seems drastic but more than understandable if the time and effort vs output, enjoyment, quality don't add up for you. My wife and I had a podcast with nearly 40 episodes but realized the time put into it and what we were personally getting out of it enjoyment in the end caused us to shut it down and pull it for good. That, and my hospitalization at the time. Life comes first.

All in all, I think just a heightened awareness of any part of the stuff I brought up might help rather than hinder. I hope. Sorry for stepping on any toes or capes along the way.
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BAT 77
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Re: TO THE BATPOLES #183: Bat-Costumes' Dynamic Duo: Chuck and Lynne Williams

Post by BAT 77 »

Hey, Tim & Paul.

First, I just wanted to say that I did enjoy your episode with Chuck & Lynne as I learned quite a bit about the history of the costumes that I never knew before, and I was very interested in hearing their stories about how they started in the industry and in their business.

As a former Bat-Podcaster, I wanted to weigh in on a few things that have been brought up on this thread. I certainly don't want you to end the podcast as there are many topics still to cover and revisit (I'm still gunning for a guest spot whenever you get around to the '77 Filmation series), and I really enjoy hearing the two brothers reminisce about their Bat-Childhoods. I had a great time guesting on your episode on Power Records, and it was an honor to have Tim on as a guest on BAT 77. I know how hard it is to keep up a bi-monthly recording and release schedule for a podcast while holding down a full-time job, having family responsibilities, and producing another podcast, not to mention coordinating schedules across many time zones. Putting out an episode once a month will give you more time to prepare and produce the show, Yes, I would miss my twice-monthly fix of "To The Batpoles", but I would look forward to the episodes even more if more time and care were put into them.

I appreciate the criticism Scott gave to the show, and I wish more constructive criticism were offered for BAT 77 when I was still producing it. It's really hard to keep going when only a small percentage of your listening audience takes the time to post a few words about what they think of your show. The only critical note I got from a review was that my opening theme music was too long (which I will own up to but won't apologize for). I can't say what level of professionalism Scott is expecting, but I do appreciate the more homespun and casual conversational tone of your show as opposed to anything that sounds like NPR. I do agree that perhaps some more prep work should've been done before having Chuck & Lynne on the show. Whenever I have had guests on my podcasts, I make sure to do some research, take my notes, and communicate with the guests beforehand on what to expect and what information they would like me to include on the podcast.

It's also okay to take a break once in a while, as I know you've done in the past, to recharge the atomic batteries, so to speak.

Keep up the good work, and remember to keep both hands on the Bat-Rope.

JB
BAT 77 - My '70s Batman Childhood
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robinboyblunderer
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Re: TO THE BATPOLES #183: Bat-Costumes' Dynamic Duo: Chuck and Lynne Williams

Post by robinboyblunderer »

P “Junior Batman” Y wrote: Tue May 03, 2022 7:40 am I hope there are more good things for listeners to find in the podcast than what you mention, that a) we seem to be having a good time and b) we’re recording it at all. But I will take your constructive comments seriously and try to improve.

Sincerely,
Paul
Hi there fellas,

I really enjoy the podcast, even when I disagree with your opinions; I think you've managed to find quite a lot to talk about for a show that only ran for three seasons..! I hope you keep to your current schedule as once a month just doesn't seem like very much at all. I don't always tune in as not every topic is going to interest me, though I'm usually willing to at least give most shows a go even if the focus isn't to my taste.

But for the most part I think there's a lot of good elements to the show.

Finally, even though I've thanked you both profusely before I shall again; I really appreciate the scripts and treatments you've shared; it's a view onto a show that might've been and interesting to see how episodes were molded for good or ill as the seasons went on.

Put me down as a "...it ain't broke don't fix it..." opinion.

cheers!
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bat-rss
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Re: TO THE BATPOLES #183: Bat-Costumes' Dynamic Duo: Chuck and Lynne Williams

Post by bat-rss »

BAT77 & Robinboyblunderer, thanks for your input! As with most things, there’s not total agreement about what is or isn’t sub-par about the show. But there’s always room for improvement, and we will keep everyone’s thoughts in mind as we move forward…perhaps skipping episodes (or covering less demanding topics, like an issue of the comic book) when we haven’t managed time to prepare well enough.
Thanks.
"I'm half-demented with whimsical outrage!"
-- The Joker, in a line cut from "The Joker's Epitaph"
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High C
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Re: TO THE BATPOLES #183: Bat-Costumes' Dynamic Duo: Chuck and Lynne Williams

Post by High C »

robinboyblunderer wrote: Thu May 05, 2022 3:56 pm I hope you keep to your current schedule as once a month just doesn't seem like very much at all.
Upon further review, I feel the same way, despite the flaws.
'I thought Siren was perfect for Joan.'--Stanley Ralph Ross, writer of 'The Wail of the Siren'

My hobbies include gazing at the Siren and doing her bidding, evil or otherwise.

'She had a devastating, hypnotic effect on all the men.'--A schoolmate describing Joan Collins at age 17
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Dan E Kool
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Re: TO THE BATPOLES #183: Bat-Costumes' Dynamic Duo: Chuck and Lynne Williams

Post by Dan E Kool »

Chuck - if you were nervous, I didn't notice at all. You did great. Lynne was fantastic as well. I'm glad I got to hear your voices after admiring your work for so many years. I have many more questions about all that you 2 do that (hopefully) might be answered in a future interview...? Same Batpoles Time, Same Batpoles podcast?

I've listened to every episode of this show and I've been a Patreon supporter for maybe 2-3 years at this point. I think some of the criticisms in this thread are fair, even if I might have worded them differently. More than anything, I'm just grateful to have a show about this subject to listen to twice a month. I wish I had more time to browse this forum and engage in the discussions here, but the Batpoles podcast lets me listen-in on 66 Batman related topics that I don't get to talk about with the people around me in the "real world."

If you incorporate some of Scott's suggestions about prep work, I think the show will be even better. It was absolutely present in earlier episodes; possibly a busy schedule has made it harder to keep up, or some of the more recent topics have been so heavy that getting all the due diligence done is more time consuming?

I like the deep-dives, myself, and would be willing to wait longer between episodes to do each topic justice. Otherwise, possibly splitting topics into multiple episodes would give you both an entire month to work over a topic and make research time easier to schedule.

Anyway, thanks, Tim & Paul, High C, Batwinged Hornet, and everyone else who comments for giving me some new 66-Batman entertainment every other week. Love you all
- Boy Genius
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