Who is THE expert on '66 bat-merch?

1966 TV show type Bat-Items found on eBay, Collectibles, etc.

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bat-rss
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Re: Who is THE expert on '66 bat-merch?

Post by bat-rss »

BiffPow, thanks for the info on the MINT museum (https://emint.com/ )! Maybe I'll have to make my way down to Singapore one of these days -- as I live in Tokyo, it's in the neighborhood, relatively speaking!

We had some delays but we're now to the point of seriously preparing to do this podcast episode. We were thinking we'd just discuss Chip Kidd's book, but it would be nice to have a guest. Kidd didn't respond to an Instagram message about possibly being our guest, but coming back to this thread, I see there are plenty more choices - to the point where I'm not even sure who should be the priority! Plus, a Twitter follower suggested Chris Franklin :



Ed Kelly says he doesn't do interviews anymore.

So, if we eliminate the two we've already tried, we still have six to choose from, by my count! We will consider. Thanks.
"I'm half-demented with whimsical outrage!"
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bat-rss
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Re: Who is THE expert on '66 bat-merch?

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By the way, if anyone knows how to contact any of these people, please send a PRIVATE message:

John A. H. Pennyworth

Craig Warren

Art Cloos

Eric Seltzer

Joe Desris
"I'm half-demented with whimsical outrage!"
-- The Joker, in a line cut from "The Joker's Epitaph"
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Ben Bentley
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Re: Who is THE expert on '66 bat-merch?

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bat-rss wrote: Sun Feb 05, 2023 3:20 am By the way, if anyone knows how to contact any of these people, please send a PRIVATE message:

John A. H. Pennyworth

Craig Warren

Art Cloos

Eric Seltzer

Joe Desris
John A. H. Pennyworth is our long standing "A.Pennyworth" here on the Message Board and can be reached via Private Message.
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bat-rss
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Re: Who is THE expert on '66 bat-merch?

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Ben Bentley wrote: Sun Feb 05, 2023 10:36 am
John A. H. Pennyworth is our long standing "A.Pennyworth" here on the Message Board and can be reached via Private Message.
memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=89
Thanks, Ben!
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-- The Joker, in a line cut from "The Joker's Epitaph"
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A. Pennyworth
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Re: Who is THE expert on '66 bat-merch?

Post by A. Pennyworth »

Art Cloos
Craig Warren
Ed Kelly


These three are probably the tops when it comes to 1966 Batman memorabilia.
Private facebook page "Batman Collectors"
https://www.facebook.com/groups/332721826769097

(edit addition: I see that Chip Kidd has now been added to the "Batman Collectors" FB page)
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bat-rss
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Re: Who is THE expert on '66 bat-merch?

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A. Pennyworth wrote: Mon Feb 06, 2023 6:47 am Art Cloos
Craig Warren
Ed Kelly


These three are probably the tops when it comes to 1966 Batman memorabilia.
Private facebook page "Batman Collectors"
https://www.facebook.com/groups/332721826769097

(edit addition: I see that Chip Kidd has now been added to the "Batman Collectors" FB page)
Ed Kelly declined, saying he doesn't do interviews anymore. I'll check out that FB page for the others. Thanks.
"I'm half-demented with whimsical outrage!"
-- The Joker, in a line cut from "The Joker's Epitaph"
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Lou Szabo
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Re: Who is THE expert on '66 bat-merch?

Post by Lou Szabo »

Ed did put out a multivolume book series of Batman stuff, some 66 some ealier. Chip Kidd is another with a book.
Some days you just can't get rid of a ... SHARK!
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bat-rss
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Re: Who is THE expert on '66 bat-merch?

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The Facebook group turns out to have its membership list hidden, and none of the collectors mentioned above have commented recently. So this looks like a dead end...
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Re: Who is THE expert on '66 bat-merch?

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bat-rss wrote: Sun Feb 05, 2023 3:07 am BiffPow, thanks for the info on the MINT museum (https://emint.com/ )! Maybe I'll have to make my way down to Singapore one of these days -- as I live in Tokyo, it's in the neighborhood, relatively speaking!

You’re welcome! I am sure you’ll enjoy it.

I’m no expert on experts, but I have read enough posts on here to confidently say that “A. Pennyworth” on this site IS one. I realize he named others, but his depth of knowledge about the show has amazed me, and I don’t use the word “amaze” lightly. That’s saying something, given that there are so many very knowledgeable members on this site who others would consider to be experts in their own right. Guessing everyone here would agree.
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Re: Who is THE expert on '66 bat-merch?

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We've had to give up on having a guest for this episode - those we reached out to either declined or didn't respond, and the rest we were unable to contact. We're going ahead with recording an episode in a few days that will basically be a discussion of the Kidd book.

QUESTION: Many of the '66 bat-toys seem to be more based on the comics, in terms of character design, than the show. In a section on trading cards, Kidd mentions that 20th Century-Fox refused to provide any photos/stills for the cards, until the fourth series of cards -- prior to that, the cards showed paintings of action scenes. (The fourth and fifth series of cards used some bat-publicity shots and some stills, mostly from the movie.) I'm guessing that 20th's foot-dragging on providing photos has a lot to do with the lack of show-specific merchandise at the time. Any idea what 20th's reasoning was in not providing photos?
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-- The Joker, in a line cut from "The Joker's Epitaph"
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Re: Who is THE expert on '66 bat-merch?

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bat-rss wrote: Mon Feb 20, 2023 7:40 pm QUESTION: Many of the '66 bat-toys seem to be more based on the comics, in terms of character design, than the show. In a section on trading cards, Kidd mentions that 20th Century-Fox refused to provide any photos/stills for the cards, until the fourth series of cards -- prior to that, the cards showed paintings of action scenes. (The fourth and fifth series of cards used some bat-publicity shots and some stills, mostly from the movie.) I'm guessing that 20th's foot-dragging on providing photos has a lot to do with the lack of show-specific merchandise at the time. Any idea what 20th's reasoning was in not providing photos?
Really sorry to hear that you're having such a hard time with a guest.

To answer your question, it comes down to money and the likeness aspects of the licensing deals...

It's hard to imagine in 2023 (especially with superhero properties) that licensing was not always a cornerstone of the overall contract and options that someone stepping into cape and cowl would have in place from day zero. The merchandise deal (or more specifically the lack therefore of a merch deal) that Adam and the others had for the Batman television series would have required National Periodical (the licensor at that time) to pay Fox to then pay the cast for the use of their likenesses for merchandise on an item/brand by brand basis.

N.P./Fox decided that they would avoid having to cough up for the most part and hence we ended up with very little official merchandise bearing the cast's likeness. The obvious examples would be the fourth series of the trading cards as you mentioned and then the Viewmaster which by the very nature of the product was based on stills from "The Purrfect Crime". A deal would be have been struck individually for these products, but keeping in mind that the licensing of photographs is a different ball of wax to licensing likeness for other product usage, the price-point would have been significantly lower than it would have been for an action figure or statue for example.

Keeping in mind that Batman was a mid-season replacement that went straight to season in less than two whole months from the date they started rolling on the Pilot, the time required to iron out a likeness deal for merch was not addressed in a timely fashion and then once the show hits in early '66 and is considered an immediate phenomenon, the window has closed for Fox/National Periodical to strike a blanket likeness deal that remained financially in their favor once Adam and Burt knew their show was a hot property.

Fast-forward to 2013 and the birth of the "Classic Batman TV Series" merchandise license that we're still enjoying the fruits of. The modern merch license had to secure individual likeness rights from any given cast member it wanted to add to the roster. Without getting too inside baseball, the deals that Adam and Burt secured were at a fixed price point in perpetuity. Some of the others were not. Yvonne Craig's deal for example was a five-year contract that was supposed to be reviewed and renewed, as of writing this, WB Licensing still has not returned to the table to discuss renewal. It's also worth me tagging this with an all important note that the likeness rights secured against the "Classic Batman TV Series" merchandise license do not cover Animation or Comic Book usage, those two entities are governed by different deals.
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Re: Who is THE expert on '66 bat-merch?

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Thanks Ben!
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-- The Joker, in a line cut from "The Joker's Epitaph"
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Re: Who is THE expert on '66 bat-merch?

Post by BATWINGED HORNET »

Thanks for all of the info, Ben.

Apparently, likeness issues were not a problem for The Green Hornet, considering the wealth of merchandise produced bearing Williams and Lee's image (e.g., coloring books, view master reels, playing and trading cards, puzzles, comic books, etc.).

The '66 Batman series has to hold a record for the most under-represented popular tv series where merchandise is concerned.
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Re: Who is THE expert on '66 bat-merch?

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BATWINGED HORNET wrote: Thu Feb 23, 2023 10:01 am Thanks for all of the info, Ben.

Apparently, likeness issues were not a problem for The Green Hornet, considering the wealth of merchandise produced bearing Williams and Lee's image (e.g., coloring books, view master reels, playing and trading cards, puzzles, comic books, etc.).
No problems, happy to share! That's what i've always loved about this board.

Dozier definitely didn't want to make the same mistake with the merchandising of Green Hornet having seen how lucrative it had been for Batman, so Van and Bruce et al were set up from the get go with contracts for likeness rights.
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Re: Who is THE expert on '66 bat-merch?

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Ben Bentley wrote: Thu Feb 23, 2023 8:00 pm
BATWINGED HORNET wrote: Thu Feb 23, 2023 10:01 am Thanks for all of the info, Ben.

Apparently, likeness issues were not a problem for The Green Hornet, considering the wealth of merchandise produced bearing Williams and Lee's image (e.g., coloring books, view master reels, playing and trading cards, puzzles, comic books, etc.).
No problems, happy to share! That's what i've always loved about this board.

Dozier definitely didn't want to make the same mistake with the merchandising of Green Hornet having seen how lucrative it had been for Batman, so Van and Bruce et al were set up from the get go with contracts for likeness rights.
Van demanded royalties for the Corgi Black Beauty so Corgi removed the Green Hornet image and replaced it with the Black Beauty for the second boxes.
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