Batman V. Superman=World's Finest?

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Bat Username
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Re: Batman V. Superman=World's Finest?

Post by Bat Username » Mon Mar 28, 2016 10:50 pm

Regarding WB sticking with Snyder, it will be interesting to see what happens. They've given themselves very little room in which to change course as Justice League is set to begin filming two weeks from now.

Opening weekend was huge but the studio is fortunate that this much negative press isn't occurring during the summer movie season. BvS currently has April largely to itself, while a summer release would have meant contending with a lot of direct competition.

WB previously declined to continue with Bryan Singer's vision after a mixed reception for Superman Returns. BvS was also intentionally crafted as a direct response to the negative criticism generated by Man of Steel's finale. You have to wonder what, if anything, they will do to offset the negativity this time around, since BvS is intended to be the foundation for their entire upcoming slate of DC films.

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Lord Death Man
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Re: Batman V. Superman=World's Finest?

Post by Lord Death Man » Mon Mar 28, 2016 11:21 pm

TBolt wrote:The opening weekend was low compared to Iron Man 3 and that is not a good sign. It should have been huge Avengers type numbers for such a big deal featuring the big 3 together on a movie screen for the first time.
Opening weekend worldwide was $420-$424 million, the highest ever for any superhero film, outdoing Avengers and iron Man 3. American movies now are being increasingly geared towards the international market, especially to China, because that is where the money lies. This is why Pacific Rim, a superb movie that did not do well in America, is getting a part two-because it did huge numbers in China.

And of course, many overseas markets do not always have a history of being invested with characters that are iconic in America. Sure, they all know who Superman and Batman are, but not a lot of the details that the hard-core American fandom does, and it just being Superman and Batman is good enough. What they really want is the spectacle and action that the film industries of their own countries cannot afford to produce.
He flies and fights-BATMAN!
Purity and virtue-BATMAN!
Cowards run away!
Batman saves the day!
Also, Boy Wonder Robin.
Batman and Robin-caped crusaders at night!
BIFF! POW! BAM! BATMAN!

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TBolt
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Re: Batman V. Superman=World's Finest?

Post by TBolt » Tue Mar 29, 2016 2:21 am

^^ It did ok world wide, but it pretty much opened everywhere, so the drop off will be everywhere, too. Its got a long way to go to catch Deadpool and the Avengers as far as totals go. Domestically it didn't do that well compared to other similar movies, and it should have given all the big guns in the DCU were there.
To the Bat-Elephant!!

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Yellow Oval
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Re: Batman V. Superman=World's Finest?

Post by Yellow Oval » Tue Mar 29, 2016 7:03 am

Amongst all who know me it's no secret how much I despise this movie, its concept, and its inspiration source. I know the excuse will be given that "Batman has many interpretations and variations" and that is the best way to completely destroy an iconic character! Suffice to say, in today's comic film climate, you could put a bat-eared cowl and cape on a cactus, call the movie 'Batman Goes to Arizona', and there will be a large fan-crowd rushing to watch it as it is "just another interpretation".

Honest to God, Batman does not torture, brand, or kill. End of story! I don't want to hear the "But Batman killed and used guns too in the early comics..." So what? That got quickly corrected and he lived by a moral code that was/is supposed to inspire us all. He also wore bright purple gloves back then too. Why isn't he wearing them now? (Like the oval-less bat logo it's plain Bob Kane didn't understand the impact of color or the symbolism of it but I digress here..)

In any event, the comic crowd may be a lost cause with their newly embraced love of the sadism, depression, and sociopathicness of today's "heroes", but it's quite obvious now the mainstream crowd still has a respect and love for the true versions as evidenced by the now increasingly admitted fact that this movie is tanking as hard as the recent Fantastic Four debacle.
http://www.forbes.com/sites/robcain/201 ... 8dd7556d72

Of interest is that Warners' back-up plan (and Hollywood in general for that matter) of relying on China to cover any financial shortfall doesn't seem to be working either.
http://www.forbes.com/sites/robcain/201 ... 00afb81de0

Funny to think it may be non-committed mainstream movie-goers, and not comic fans, that may actually force the boat of the comic world to eventually right itself - or finally capsize and go under. Either way big changes should be coming.

As a buyer of DC items I consider myself a defacto DC investor and my vote calls for: 1) The immediate firing of Zach Snyder from any more projects 2) The immediate firing of the entire DC Comics executive management staff from Nelson, Harras, DiDio, Johns, and Lee on down and 3) A major turfing and pink-slip handout to the same at Warner Bros. The level of incompetence (and its tolerancy of it) at both for the last 20 or so years has been absolutely mind-boggling! :shock:
"Hmmm... I don't like the twist this joke is taking. Let us away! Let us away!"

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Jesusismysuperhero
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Re: Batman V. Superman=World's Finest?

Post by Jesusismysuperhero » Tue Mar 29, 2016 7:39 am

I saw the movie again and I am changing my opinion on it. It had potential to be a good movie. There were things I liked about it but overall I was disappointed. The only part I liked was the part with Wonder Woman. I am hoping that that movie will be better.

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SprangFan
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Re: Batman V. Superman=World's Finest?

Post by SprangFan » Tue Mar 29, 2016 8:08 am

As a buyer of DC items I consider myself a defacto DC investor and my vote calls for: 1) The immediate firing of Zach Snyder from any more projects 2) The immediate firing of the entire DC Comics executive management staff from Nelson, Harras, DiDio, Johns, and Lee on down and 3) A major turfing and pink-slip handout to the same at Warner Bros. The level of incompetence (and its tolerancy of it) at both for the last 20 or so years has been absolutely mind-boggling! :shock:
Don't hold your breath. If 20 years of incompetence hasn't upset the powers-that-be, one more screw-up won't do it, either. Besides which, it's not enough to fire the incompetent; you need to have a new game plan ready, and competent replacements in the wings to replace the team you just fired. I'm not convinced DC/Warner has any clear idea where they want to go with comics and films (other than nebulous notions of "matching" or "beating" Marvel), so any personnel shifts at this point won't mean much.

Personally, I consider my interest in these characters purely nostalgia-driven, because for me they only exist in the past. What passes for "Superman" and "Batman" these days are different animals (pretty much literally) altogether. BUT...I still have the old serials, movies, radio shows, TV shows and cartoons I used to have, and there are lots of affordable collections available of the stories I loved (and others from that time period I'm just getting around to reading now). And a lot of that stuff is available as a side effect of the popularity of the new films, which again do not appeal to me but at least keep DC in business to deliver me that old stuff I do like.

I guess my point is: you'll never stop the owners of these franchises from taking things in new (and often wrong) directions, and it's not worth losing sleep over. The best you can do is cherish the stuff you love. I love Star Trek, but I'm not going anywhere near this year's movie. I love 007, but I can take or leave anything they've put out in the last 20 years. And I love Superman and Batman, but I have no interest in this movie about two impostors. DC doesn't owe me anything, and I don't owe them anything. It's an amicable divorce for me: We had a good run, but we've moved on.
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Batman65
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Re: Batman V. Superman=World's Finest?

Post by Batman65 » Tue Mar 29, 2016 9:28 am

Well put SprangFan

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Bat Username
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Re: Batman V. Superman=World's Finest?

Post by Bat Username » Tue Mar 29, 2016 11:45 am

Yellow Oval wrote:Honest to God, Batman does not torture, brand, or kill. End of story!
I hated the branding idea going into the film but thought it was handled about as well as could be expected. (Although I'm sure the R rated cut will probably show Batman acting more like The Punisher during that scene.) The media reports it as a new gimmick Batman has only resorted to twice and both Clark and Alfred view it as a desperate tactic he is wrong to be employing. By the end of the film Batman also demonstrates that he's willing to stop using it.

Frankly, I thought it was one of the better attempts to give the character some kind of arc. I ended up having a bigger issue with Batman's justification for going through with the titular fight. When Superman tries to reason with Bruce in The Dark Knight Returns, it makes sense when Bruce ignores the plea for reason. When the same thing happens in BvS, it simply makes Batman look completely unjustified for going through with the fight. The filmmakers basically adapt the famous battle without bothering to develop the characters so that their participation in it makes logical sense. (Seriously, the whole thing could've been resolved in about 30 seconds if Bruce hadn't jumped the gun.)

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Mike Mulitsch
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Re: Batman V. Superman=World's Finest?

Post by Mike Mulitsch » Tue Mar 29, 2016 12:33 pm

I enjoyed it for what it was!

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AndyFish
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Re: Batman V. Superman=World's Finest?

Post by AndyFish » Tue Mar 29, 2016 3:05 pm

I've not seen it and have no plans to-- but despite a huge opening Thursday-Friday the movie broke records for fastest decline from Friday - Sunday-- one might argue that Easter hurt it, but I don't think so. Word of mouth and reviews are SO bad that usually sinks a film quick. See the Fox Fantastic Four from last summer. Mega bomb.

I still have a friend or two at DC and I can tell you as of yesterday there was some hand-wringing going on. The future of DC's film franchise to rival Marvel's is definitely in doubt. Mis-steps like Superman Returns, Green Lantern and even the less than expected performance of Man of Steel can cause a lot of worry when a studio is putting so much money into a film.

DC needs to get it's own house in order, another relaunch or reboot or re-whatever is slated for June. Personally I think most mainstream comics are a mess. I'll stick with Archie's reboot and the stuff Dark Horse puts out.

As for entertainment, I'd rather watch something good like BETTER CALL SAUL which has actual writing in it then a 2 and a half hour series of explosions with cardboard characters in it.

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Batman65
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Re: Batman V. Superman=World's Finest?

Post by Batman65 » Tue Mar 29, 2016 3:24 pm

I'm with Andy. Haven't seen it, have no plans to. My bro in law saw it and he is a huge comic book fan. He has a monstrous collection. He said it was a f'd up mess. I made the right decision to call pass here. I'll watch my 66 DVDs and Reeve's superman before I ever waste a minute on this one.

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Lord Death Man
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Re: Batman V. Superman=World's Finest?

Post by Lord Death Man » Tue Mar 29, 2016 6:59 pm

Yellow Oval wrote:Batman does not torture, brand, or kill. End of story!
But yet, you are a big fan of the Michael Keaton Batman, yes? The Batman with twin machine guns on the Batmobile? The Batman who blows up a chemical factory filled with the Joker's goons? Not only killing the majority of them but releasing clouds of toxic chemicals into a densely populated area? The Batman that fires upon the Joker with twin gatling guns? The Batman that deliberately turns the Batmobile's flame exhaust on one of the Red Triangle gang, immolating him? The Batman that stuffs several sticks of timed dynamite down the front of a man's pants and then throws him into the sewer to maximize the results of the explosion? So apparently Batman does torture, brand, and kill.

I thought Batman Vs. Superman was great, with excellent character development and arcs if you actually paid attention. It reminds me of a Greek or Japanese tragedy-much more interesting than a simple white hat vs black hat story. A hero has become jaded and broken down by several incidents (I do not want to spoil things for those who have not seen the film) and becomes as bad as the criminals he fights, only to be jolted back to his senses by the example set by a noble sacrifice. A fall from grace, true heroism, and redemption. Affleck's performance is superb, and he has passed up Adam West (please don't hate me, board!) as my #2 Batman after Lewis Wilson.
He flies and fights-BATMAN!
Purity and virtue-BATMAN!
Cowards run away!
Batman saves the day!
Also, Boy Wonder Robin.
Batman and Robin-caped crusaders at night!
BIFF! POW! BAM! BATMAN!

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Bat Username
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Re: Batman V. Superman=World's Finest?

Post by Bat Username » Tue Mar 29, 2016 8:42 pm

The "torture/murder" criticism appears to be a common one directed at BvS. It's slightly ironic then that the only modern Batman who doesn't torture or kill anyone is George Clooney.

(I guess you could also argue Kilmer, since he doesn't appear to intend for Two-Face to fall to his death. However, that would still leave the Schumacher Batmen as the only ones who adhere to Batman's moral code.)

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Batman65
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Re: Batman V. Superman=World's Finest?

Post by Batman65 » Wed Mar 30, 2016 3:52 am

Affleck's cowl doesn't even cover up that stupid mark on his chin or hide his dimples. Darth Vader type voice ?..There is nothing superb about that! No thank you!

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Re: Batman V. Superman=World's Finest?

Post by BATWINGED HORNET » Wed Mar 30, 2016 4:36 am

AndyFish wrote:I've not seen it and have no plans to-- but despite a huge opening Thursday-Friday the movie broke records for fastest decline from Friday - Sunday-- one might argue that Easter hurt it, but I don't think so. Word of mouth and reviews are SO bad that usually sinks a film quick.
That did not stop the universally blasted Transformers films from emptying wallets around the world.


You sound like you're hoping the film suffers. I love the Adam West series as much as anyone, but that and productions like the God awful Super Friends are not the impressions most have of Batman. That ship sailed the moment DC aggressively separated the character from any acknowledgement of the TV series tone or influence in the comics in the late 60s-early 70s (a reason why so many resented the Super Friends when it premiered in '73), and certainly after the effect of Miller in the 80s.
As for entertainment, I'd rather watch something good like BETTER CALL SAUL which has actual writing in it then a 2 and a half hour series of explosions with cardboard characters in it.
You just described the Avengers, Guardians, Ant Man....
Beneath Wayne Manor

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