Just 2 seasons of Batman

[Jaws63]

We know season 1 was serious in tone, more comic book like, and season 2's campiness paved the way to season 3's silliness and horrible sets. If you could fit Batman66 into two categories, serious and over the top silly...lets examine season 2 episodes.

Archer- season 3
Minstrel- season 1
Clock king-season I
Penguin for mayor episode- season 3
and so on.

in what category would you put each episode?

[High C]

We know season 1 was serious in tone, more comic book like, and season 2's campiness paved the way to season 3's silliness and horrible sets. If you could fit Batman66 into two categories, serious and over the top silly...lets examine season 2 episodes.

Archer- season 3
Minstrel- season 1
Clock king-season I
Penguin for mayor episode- season 3
and so on.

in what category would you put each episode?

Interesting question. I'd agree with the first 4 you mentioned, and add that what I liked about Minstrel was Batman planted something before the fight that helped them escape the deathtrap, and how he used actual detective skills in the Clock King. In other words, he didn't just rely on luck or some Bat-gadget all the time, as he soon would.

Catwoman can be both season 1 and 3 in the same eps. She can be very evil, but then her plan degenerates into downright silliness, such as the 'Getaway Rocket.

King Tut--hard to quantify. So over-the-top but also so downright evil. He straddles season 1 and 3, I think.

Ma Parker/Shame--fish out of water types, more season 3

Egghead--character is season 1, plot is season 3

Chandell--3

Joker time machine--3

Marsha--3

Penguin restaurant--1

Puzzler--3

Sandman--CW’s portion is season 1

Joker/Penguin--3

Penguin/Marsha--3

Joker robots--3

Black Widow--3

Joker pop art--3

'

[Jaws63]

I was also considering episode rotation, as far as Catwoman's second episode. For some reason I was thinking of this episode being followed up by "Enter Batgirl, exit Penguin" because at the end of Catwoman's 2nd episode we see the duo in the commissioner's office, and at the beginning of the 3rd season opener, we see the duo entering the batcave...plus the added addition of B&R's conversation of just putting away Catwoman is a nice touch of continuity.

I was also thinking that since "The spell of Tut" is almost a continuation of his season 1 episode, I'd leave this episode as season 1 as well. I agree with you that Ma Parker and Shame need to be season 3, but Egghead needs to be season 3 as well. Chandell Season 1. Preminger's Mr.freeze needs to be s3. Jokers magic box, Puzzler, the later Mad Hatter, Black widow, all of season 2 catwoman epiosdes, Any episode with Marsha,(for that matter any 3part episode) all need to be s3. I agree that Catwoman/Sandman, s1.
"King Tut's coup, Joker's robots, Joker's art school, and Wallach's Freeze need to be s1. I'm gonna get rapped for this, but the Green hornet episode should be season 1 as well only because the Duo did not see them as crime fighters in the episode, but in subsequent episodes they ARE recognized(either as a window cameo or a tv show) as heroes.

[High C]

Agree with most of what you said, including Green Hornet crossover being like S1, but must disagree on Chandell.

A non-actor in a silly dual role with a nonsensical gimmick (the magic bagpipes) screams season 3 to me. There were some good things here, but the ep was way out there and casting Liberace showed how it became, in Dozier's eyes, about getting 'names' rather than good actors.

[Jaws63]

I just re-watched the Chandell episodes, and I think your right High C...I take back what I said about it being like season 1. I thought I remembered this episode to be a little more serious in tone, with a fairly consistent plot, I now walk away with a different point of view. First off there was an eye rolling piece of dialogue in Gorden's office where the commissioner and O'Hara are "missing" B&R's catch phrase "to the Batpoles"...trying to understand this is like trying to understand the home movie sequence in "Louie's lethel liiac time". IAslo Liberacy in this roll came across to me like Stan Laurel in a Shakespeare audition, It was painstakingly obvious Liberacy was wrong for this roll and should've had no part in being apart of Batman. Neil Diamond(who would be in two movies a decade later) would've been terrific in the Chandell roll.

[Jaws63]

I just realized one hole in my Neil Diamond reference, Back in 67' Diamond was rather new to the music scene and more of a hipster and definitely too young to marry Harrieitt Cooper, so one slight tweak I would make in the plot device is that he "tricks" Harriett into thinking that they are related and cousin to Dick Grayson....and the plot goes on.

[Jaws63]

After more thought, there IS no fixing this episode without changing everything. This episode creates ii's own holes all it's own. If there was any question as to who was biologically related to Harriett, it's answered in this episode

"Your Aunt Harriett is definitely above reproach"

As I understood this plot,, Harry was blackmailing his twin brother Chandell for a fake performance. Chandell had his own plan to get close to Harriett Cooper, Marry her, Kill Bruce and Dick and inherit the Wayne fortune. Now if there is no blood ties to Bruce and Dick, how the hell does Chandell think that by marrying Harriett he gets anywhere closer to the Wayne fortune, Harriett is not an heir, she's not a Wayne.

Also by the end of this episode, it's clear that Chandell never got a chance to even get his plan off the ground, so no crime committed...this reduces Chandell to a Zelda like character(playing second fiddle to the main Villain)with the only difference in that Zelda did rob Banks...Chandell should've never been jailed.

[clavierankh]

Let's see... Chandelll was a conspirator in the robbery at Wayne Manor, used his criminal piano to sett of the bomb at the Burmese Import Company, sent Batman and Robin into a deathtrap at brother Harry's piano roll factory. I would say he committed some crimes.

As for the Wayne fortune, since Dick is next in line to inherit and Aunt Harriet is his closest relative she would be in line to inherit , depending on the terms of Bruce's will.

By the way the chief and the commissioner were longing to hear "To the Batmobile Robin, let's go."

I liked he episode. I thought Liberace was fine parodying himself. I would have had James Milhollin's Mr. Sly as the blackmailer. Liberace was not convincing as twin brother, Harry.

[Progress Pigment]

Nice topic!!! The Archer being the 2nd season opener was quite a drop in quality. Season 3 definitely. And actually 'Cat & the Fiddle', I'd have to say seaon 3. Eartha Kitt may as well have done it. The Minstrel- season 1, The Clock king-season 1 (wonderful epidode!), The Penguin for mayor episode- season 3. Chandell was a solid season 1 episode, until you get to that stupid piano roll death trap. The Sandman, season 1 -- just barely. The Joker key episode, season one. The Penguin's Nest, season one, although it really didn't work. Both the King Tut episodes are season 3. Queen of Diamonds, I'm going out on a limb and saying season 1. It's like a very odd first season episode. The Mad Hatter and Green Ice, season one. Great episodes! I'm really on the fence about John Astin's Riddler. I cannot decide. Shame is close, but I have to say season 3. The rest all season 3, including The Green Hornet! The Alphabet-soup bat container? Like Batgirl's vat cutter! Pinky Pinkston? Shades of Little Louie Groovy & Mr. & Mrs. Keeper!

[BATWINGED HORNET]

I was also considering episode rotation, as far as Catwoman's second episode. For some reason I was thinking of this episode being followed up by "Enter Batgirl, exit Penguin" because at the end of Catwoman's 2nd episode we see the duo in the commissioner's office, and at the beginning of the 3rd season opener, we see the duo entering the batcave...plus the added addition of B&R's conversation of just putting away Catwoman is a nice touch of continuity.

I think the problem with the Batgirl debut is the overall execution & tone. While the one-off about putting Catwoman away is a link--it is the only link. The rest of the episode took a very different shift in execution, as Batman and Robin were not the same characters as in CW's 2nd appearance, where much of their season one characterization remained in place. Even the Penguin was not as calculating or sinister as in S1, so in the end, I think there's not much to connect the stories as being part of the same season.

I was also thinking that since "The spell of Tut" is almost a continuation of his season 1 episode, I'd leave this episode as season 1 as well.

Borderline. Tut's 2nd appearance retained some of his 1st characterization, but by then, Buono was well aware of the response to his 1st appearance and the power of the series, so he cranked up the outrageous traits of the character to a point.

I agree with you that Ma Parker and Shame need to be season 3, but Egghead needs to be season 3 as well. Chandell Season 1. Preminger's Mr.freeze needs to be s3. Jokers magic box, Puzzler, the later Mad Hatter, Black widow, all of season 2 catwoman epiosdes, Any episode with Marsha,(for that matter any 3part episode) all need to be s3.

I think the CW/Cataphrenic episode is pure season 2: part of the ever-shifting tone of the series, but not to the cartoony and/or insulting level of the worst season 3 offered (think wind up mice..surfing...flying saucers...deadly flies, etc.).

I'm gonna get rapped for this, but the Green hornet episode should be season 1 as well only because the Duo did not see them as crime fighters in the episode, but in subsequent episodes they ARE recognized(either as a window cameo or a tv show) as heroes.

Not at all. Coming at the tail end of season two, the crossover jump started the series (briefly) with a charge similar to serious nature of season one; throughout it all, both teams regarded each other as a threat. The dialogue was as hard edged as any scripted for the 1st season. The only problem is Gumm--if you replace him with early Joker, or Sanders' Mr. Freeze, and the entire crossover is a home-run. Of all of the dangers faced in S2--or the series, Batman & Robin did not have an immediate edge, or expectation of victory (from the characters or the audience).

For that reason, it is not a stretch to place the crossover in S1.

[Mr. Deathtrap]

Citizens,

This idea of catagorizing season 2 stories as more serious season 1 adventures or laregely silly season 3 comedies is interesting. (I may be oversimplifying.)

Regardless, I'd have to place "Batman's Anniversary / A Riddling Controversy" into the more serious season 1 catagory because it is a comic book based, well plotted story. At its climax, Riddler had obtained a powerful weapon and was holding Gotham City to ransom, only Batman's cleverness stopped him. In season 3 he would have pressed the Bat defeat the Riddler button on a device from his utility belt.

I'd also suggest the story which was replaced with the Puzzler would have had a more serious tone because the Riddler's gimmick demands good plotting, which leads to better stories.

In season 3, most of Riddler's riddles were more characterization than plot devices and the story is tolerated because Frank Gorshin's performance is so well loved, of course, for good reason.

I hope to have helped come up with a solution to these riddling questions.

Mr. Deahttrap

[Jaws63]

Citizens,

This idea of catagorizing season 2 stories as more serious season 1 adventures or laregely silly season 3 comedies is interesting. (I may be oversimplifying.)

Regardless, I'd have to place "Batman's Anniversary / A Riddling Controversy" into the more serious season 1 catagory because it is a comic book based, well plotted story. At its climax, Riddler had obtained a powerful weapon and was holding Gotham City to ransom, only Batman's cleverness stopped him. In season 3 he would have pressed the Bat defeat the Riddler button on a device from his utility belt.

I'd also suggest the story which was replaced with the Puzzler would have had a more serious tone because the Riddler's gimmick demands good plotting, which leads to better stories.

In season 3, most of Riddler's riddles were more characterization than plot devices and the story is tolerated because Frank Gorshin's performance is so well loved, of course, for good reason.

I hope to have helped come up with a solution to these riddling questions.

Mr. Deahttrap

Not that I didn't know where to place this episode, it was a matter of forgetting the episode. I agree though Astin's Riddler is definitely a season 1 style, the latter part of season 1. Now the next task is to create a new chronology of the episodes here is what I was thinking:

breaking the episodes in groups of 10

season 1 1
1)The Joker goes to school
2)He meets his match, the grisly ghoul
3)instant freeze
4)Rats like cheese
5)The crazy crimes of Clock king
6)The king gets crowned
7)The Sandman Cometh
8)the Catwoman goeth
9)A piece of the action
10)Batman's satisfaction

2
!)Zelda the great
2)A death worse than fate
3)Fine feathered finks
4)The Penguin is a jinx
5)Ring of wax
6)give 'em the axe
7)Death in slow motion
8)Riddler's false notion
9)The 13th hat
10)batman stands pat

3
1)A riddle a day keeps the Riddler away
2)When the rats away the mice will play
3)The purrfect crime
4)Better luck next time
5)The Bookworm turns
6)While Gotham city burns
7)The Joker is wild
8)Batman is riled
9)The Curse of Tut
10)The pharaoh's in a rut

4
1)Hi diddle Riddle
2)Smack in the middle
3)True or false face
4)Holy rat race
5)Penguin goes straight
6)Not yet he ain't
7)The spell of Tut
8)Tut's case is shut
9)The Joker's last laugh
10)Jokers epitaph

5
1)Fine finny fiends
2)Batman makes the scenes
3)Batman's anniversary
4)A riddling controversy
5)King Tut's coup
6)Batman's waterlou
7)Pop goes the Joker
8)Flop goes the Joker
9)Ice spy
10)The duo defy


6
1)Joker trumps an ace
2)Batman sets the pace
3)The Minstel's shakedown
4)Barbecued Batman
5)The devils finger
6)The dead ringers
7) The impractical Joker
8)The Jokers provokers
9)Green Ice
10)Deep freeze

season 2 1
1)An egg grows in Gotham
2)The yegg foes in Gotham
3)Hot off the griddle
4)The cat and the fiddle
5)Enter Batgirl, exit Penguin
6)The Zodiac crimes
7)Jokers hard time
8)The Penguin declines
9)Black widow strikes again
10)caught in the spiders den


2
1)The penguin's nest
2)The bird's last jest
3)Marsha, Queen of diamonds
4)Marsha's scheme with diamonds
5)The puzzles are coming
6)The duo is slumming
7)The contaminated cowl
8)Mad Hatter runs a foul
9)Come back Shame
10)It's the way you play the game

3
1)The cat's meow
2)The bats kow tow
3)Ring around the Riddler
4)Penguin is a girls best friend
5)Penguin sets a trend
6)Penguin's disastrous end
7)The unkindest Tut of all
8)Louie the lilac
9)The Ogg and I
10)How to hatch a dinosaur

4
1)Catwoman goes to college
2)Batman displays his knowledge
3)The sport of Penguins
4)A horse of another color
5)The Londinium larcenies
6)The foggiest notion
7)The bloody tower
8)The wail of the Siren
9)The great escape
10)The great train robbery

5
1)Shoot a crooked arrow
2)Walk the straight and narrow
3)The greatest mother of them all
4)Ma Parker
5)That darn Catwoamn
6)Scat, darn Catwoman
7)Surf's up, Jokers under
8)Louie's lethal lilac time
9)The Jokers flying saucer
10)Entrancing Dr. Cassandra

6
1)Hizzonner the Penguin
2)Dizzonner the Penguin
3)The Ogg couple
4)Catwoman's dressed to kill
5)I'll be a mummy's uncle
6)Penguin's clean sweep
7)The funny feline felonies
8)The jokes on Catwoman
9)Minerva, Mayhem and millionaires
10)Nora Clavical and the ladies crime club

[Mr. Deathtrap]

Well Jaws63,

Your idea of rearranging the episodes would solve one major problem with the Batman show.

Nobody liked John Astin's portrayal of the Riddler as well as Frank Gorshin's. The reason Astin was used is his story commemorated the pilot episode with the Riddler. So, if the Joker is used in the pilot, he would hve been used in the anniversary story instead of the Riddler and Astin would never have been cast. We might also have been spared "Ring Around the Riddler".

Mr. Deathtrap

[John S. Drew]

I'm making it a point not to watch the entire series at the moment as I want fresh thoughts for my Batcave Podcast. I'm currently at the start of the second season, but from what I see so far...

The Archer - 2nd season
The Catwoman - It teeters between 1st and 2nd, the rocket giving it a push towards 2nd.
The Minstrel - 1st season, mind you, it's a weaker episode, but a weak 1st season episode beats any 2nd or 3rd season one
King Tut - 2nd season, but then I thought Tut was never the best villain and he fits in more with the 2nd season camp
Ma Parker - 2nd season
Clock King - 1st season