Batman's upcoming marriage?

[Jthree]

I wrote to DC about releasing trade paperback collections of The Inferior Five, Jerry Lewis, more Sugar and Spike, Angel and the Ape, Anthro, and a few other series that had a bit of humor to them.

I also mentioned that that they should bring back Batman 66 with a story where our beloved Bright Knight finally marries the Princess of Plunder, and maybe do a few variations such as perhaps the Neal Adams/Denny O'Neil Caped Crusader.

You have some good points Andy, but I wish more fun elements would come back to more mainstream titles rather than having to "hunt" for them. DC has so many titles but for all the talk about diversity, there's so little variety.

--jthree

[Jthree]

Don't know why today's artists have to gross out the audience. There should be more fun to the event, and all I can see is dark and gritty.

THIS. Heaven forbid anything could be a ray of hope. Dark, dark, dark.

I agree with the above. I've actually found I've pretty much pulled out of comic fandom. Haven't been to see a superhero movie since Captain America: Winter Soldier and haven't bothered with DC's on-screen garbage since the god-awful train-wreck Man of Steel. Last comic convention I went to was in 2015 as I was bored with what they've become (it's all nothing but overrated Frank Miller/Jim Lee Batman and Harley Quinn) - although I will be going to the Montreal one this weekend only to meet Chuck Norris. Now that I think of it, I haven't even been to my comic shop since last fall as the collectibles, for me, have dried up and I haven't bought comics regularly since 2000 with the exception of Batman '66 which I stopped with issue #12 as it was getting ridiculous.

If comics are fun, great, I'm there. When they become politically-correct, adult, dark and overly violent in a mistaken attempt to try to gain "respect and sophistication" then count me out.

How did politically-correct come to equal dark stories? How did politically correct come to equate violence?
Can anybody tell me?

--jthree

[AndyFish]

I wrote to DC about releasing trade paperback collections of The Inferior Five, Jerry Lewis, more Sugar and Spike, Angel and the Ape, Anthro, and a few other series that had a bit of humor to them.

I also mentioned that that they should bring back Batman 66 with a story where our beloved Bright Knight finally marries the Princess of Plunder, and maybe do a few variations such as perhaps the Neal Adams/Denny O'Neil Caped Crusader.

You have some good points Andy, but I wish more fun elements would come back to more mainstream titles rather than having to "hunt" for them. DC has so many titles but for all the talk about diversity, there's so little variety.

--jthree

I think except for Jerry Lewis, which would require rights, they very well might release these. This is the best time for collections of vintage comics. I spend FAR more on collected editions of vintage stuff than I do anything modern.

Also in the comics recommendation vein-- Chris Samnee and Doc Shaner are two creators who love the classic "heroic" stuff- and both not only are artists but are starting to realize they can write their own projects just as well or better than any writer can.

[Jthree]

[
I think except for Jerry Lewis, which would require rights, they very well might release these. This is the best time for collections of vintage comics. I spend FAR more on collected editions of vintage stuff than I do anything modern.

Same here.

--jthree

[BATWINGED HORNET]

If comics are fun, great, I'm there. When they become politically-correct, adult, dark and overly violent in a mistaken attempt to try to gain "respect and sophistication" then count me out.

You mean the same comic industry that in 1968 killed off the Doom Partol when they allowed themselves to be blown up on an island in exchange for the lives of 14 people?

..or how about in Amazing Spider-Man as Captain Stacy was mortally injured by falling debris while saving a child? That was 1970.

...or the Harry Osborn drug stories in Amazing Spider-Man? 1971.

...Speedy's drug addiction in Green Lantern/Green Arrow? Also 1971.

Gwen Stacy's death likely caued by Spider-Man's webbing stopping her fall so abruptly that it broke her neck? 1973.

...the Joker murdering members of his old gang? Also 1973.

Comic creators had moved into that darker territory generations ago, not only because in many cases, they wanted to make a point, but some wanted to challenge themselves and readers with more adult content. Comics were not like--for example--their cartoon spin-offs, thankfully. They were serious, and just the surface i've scratched are among the most celebrated comics of all time. ..and yes, they were sophisticated and respected.

[Jthree]

If comics are fun, great, I'm there. When they become politically-correct, adult, dark and overly violent in a mistaken attempt to try to gain "respect and sophistication" then count me out.

You mean the same comic industry that in 1968 killed off the Doom Partol when they allowed themselves to be blown up on an island in exchange for the lives of 14 people?

Comic creators had moved into that darker territory generations ago, not only because in many cases, they wanted to make a point, but some wanted to challenge themselves and readers with more adult content. Comics were not like--for example--their cartoon spin-offs, thankfully. They were serious, and just the surface i've scratched are among the most celebrated comics of all time. ..and yes, they were sophisticated and respected.

Good times. Good times.
You have some valid points Hornet. But those events were the exception not the rule. Not like today, when all the art is dark and gritty, and it seems like the industry tries to outdo itself when it comes to tragedy. There was more "brightness" to the comics in the artwork and in other ways. And they maybe a few comic book artists and writers who regret opening the door on some matters.

==jthree

[John Mack]

I was talking with my 18 year old son the other day, who is an avid Flash fan and has amassed a ginormous comic book collection, about what he felt was the reason for all the violence, dark, gloomy areas our heroes have seemed to all come to. His answer? It's realistic. Hmmmm. So, holy social commentary Batman! Things have changed in comic book land. I asked him if he felt that all these violent, dark story lines equaled realism. Yes, he said. I explained (in my best old man voice) that our heroes used be escapism. A way of seeing good against evil, where good always wins and evil never does for long anyway.

His reply? Yeah, in their underwear on the outside of their clothes. Sigh.......

[BATWINGED HORNET]

I was talking with my 18 year old son the other day, who is an avid Flash fan and has amassed a ginormous comic book collection, about what he felt was the reason for all the violence, dark, gloomy areas our heroes have seemed to all come to. His answer? It's realistic. Hmmmm. So, holy social commentary Batman! Things have changed in comic book land. I asked him if he felt that all these violent, dark story lines equaled realism. Yes, he said. I explained (in my best old man voice) that our heroes used be escapism. A way of seeing good against evil, where good always wins and evil never does for long anyway.

His reply? Yeah, in their underwear on the outside of their clothes. Sigh.......

Yeah, but when were heroes not violent? In the 40s Golden Age stories, Sub-Mariner, Captain America and Bucky killed enemies left, right and center with the backdrop of a violent world war. When Cap was revived in the 1960s, Marvel also resurrected a hate-spewing Nazi (the Red Skull) and then created Neo-Fascist organizations (HYDRA, AIM. et al.) in very dark storylines that ran for years.

Early Batman was violent, and as pointed out yesterday, comics never backed away from grim reality. That's the kind of writing that kept comics on the map at that time, rather than sink to something as silly and easy to dismiss as The Super Friends. Heroism comes in many forms, but I think it works best when relatable adversity is faced, instead of a wink and smile at the end of every adventure.

[Jthree]

I was talking with my 18 year old son the other day, who is an avid Flash fan and has amassed a ginormous comic book collection, about what he felt was the reason for all the violence, dark, gloomy areas our heroes have seemed to all come to. His answer? It's realistic. Hmmmm. So, holy social commentary Batman! Things have changed in comic book land. I asked him if he felt that all these violent, dark story lines equaled realism. Yes, he said. I explained (in my best old man voice) that our heroes used be escapism. A way of seeing good against evil, where good always wins and evil never does for long anyway.

His reply? Yeah, in their underwear on the outside of their clothes. Sigh.......

Yeah, but when were heroes not violent? In the 40s Golden Age stories, Sub-Mariner, Captain America and Bucky killed enemies left, right and center with the backdrop of a violent world war. When Cap was revived in the 1960s, Marvel also resurrected a hate-spewing Nazi (the Red Skull) and then created Neo-Fascist organizations (HYDRA, AIM. et al.) in very dark storylines that ran for years.

Early Batman was violent, and as pointed out yesterday, comics never backed away from grim reality. That's the kind of writing that kept comics on the map at that time, rather than sink to something as silly and easy to dismiss as The Super Friends. Heroism comes in many forms, but I think it works best when relatable adversity is faced, instead of a wink and smile at the end of every adventure.

Hornet, what you're saying is valid, but I would argue that we need a wink and a smile right now. As for early Batman being violent, societal forces, whether you agreed with them or not, soon had Batman more family friendly, and that lasted for about twenty five years. There were also other comic books such as Barks' Uncle Scrooge which were popular, that didn't lean so much on the darkness of human nature. I don't see very much attempt at balance these days.
--jthree

[John Mack]

DC and Marvel need to start a line called, Retro Heroes. But as pointed out to me by the same son, where would they fit in the time line....sigh again

PS: Earth 37 or some such nonsense..but were getting off track, we better focus on the nuptials

[SprangFan]

I'm discovering tons of great material I missed back when I could only be bothered to read superheroes: Westerns like Doug Wildey's "Rio" and Joe Kubert's "Tex," even Dynamite's recent "Lone Ranger" title, old Marvel "Conan" books which somehow escaped me completely first time around and of which there is TONS of material, vintage Warren "Creepy," some ( not all) of the most recent James Bond miniseries, etc.

Superhero comics are pretty much dead to me, between being twisted to appeal to the prurient interests of fans "adult" enough to crave raunch and gore but not enough to move on from heroes in capes and tights, and the corporate bosses more interested in monetizing intellectual properties than caring for the core values of once venerated American icons. Happily there's probably still more vintage material for me to read in reprints than I'll live long enough to exhaust, and those non-superhero titles from past and present are satisfying my appetite for creative approaches to the comics format.

Anyway there are enough spoilers out there 24/7 that I can keep up with what the superheroes are doing without spending a penny. For instance now I know this whole marriage thing was a bust, anyway.

[Jthree]

I'm discovering tons of great material I missed back when I could only be bothered to read superheroes: Westerns like Doug Wildey's "Rio" and Joe Kubert's "Tex," even Dynamite's recent "Lone Ranger" title, old Marvel "Conan" books which somehow escaped me completely first time around and of which there is TONS of material, vintage Warren "Creepy," some ( not all) of the most recent James Bond miniseries, etc.

Superhero comics are pretty much dead to me, between being twisted to appeal to the prurient interests of fans "adult" enough to crave raunch and gore but not enough to move on from heroes in capes and tights, and the corporate bosses more interested in monetizing intellectual properties than caring for the core values of once venerated American icons. Happily there's probably still more vintage material for me to read in reprints than I'll live long enough to exhaust, and those non-superhero titles from past and present are satisfying my appetite for creative approaches to the comics format.

Anyway there are enough spoilers out there 24/7 that I can keep up with what the superheroes are doing without spending a penny. For instance now I know this whole marriage thing was a bust, anyway.

Thank you Springfan. I feel less alone now.

James

[robinboyblunderer]

Superhero comics are pretty much dead to me, between being twisted to appeal to the prurient interests of fans "adult" enough to crave raunch and gore but not enough to move on from heroes in capes and tights, and the corporate bosses more interested in monetizing intellectual properties than caring for the core values of once venerated American icons.

I feel badly for so many creators that lost control of their creations and/or were stuck doing work for hire and didn't even receive the financial benefits of their work or to the degree the companies did.

As to depictions of the character, I can enjoy the campy '66 show, or the darker versions as different takes on the concept, one doesn't invalidate the other but I don't take it seriously, much the same way I could watch a horror movie or thriller or something that may not be the intellectually nourishing but fun in the moment.

Within this context I think the comics have gotten ridiculously dark though and the whole everyone using each other's name (Eddie for Riddler, Oswald for Penguin etc.) comes across as if this is the "cool" approach and saying Riddler would be ridiculous or embarrassing; all the while a guy in bat-like armour beats them up. Well, I'm not the audience for this stuff, for me it's like not enjoying golf and then tuning into the PGA finals and complaining. And yet I still do it from time to time (not the PGA).

For better or for worse what were for children have now evolved for adults (though there are all ages versions of the character out there) and whether that's good or bad is, I think, a bigger issue. I'm glad there are comics out there telling other stories than the same superhero tales along a spectrum of light to dark/grim. Some say the industry would collapse without the superheroes and they help potentially offer the potential for the independents.

Perhaps things are changing in that regard with the internet but I think that's enough drifting from the main topic. Bringing it back, I was wrong when I thought the NYT leaked fake spoilers, they don't marry which surprised me since even with the limitations of a corporately owned character for better or worse this would've offered some new storylines to explore.

cheers

[robinboyblunderer]

I'm discovering tons of great material I missed back when I could only be bothered to read superheroes: Westerns like Doug Wildey's "Rio" and Joe Kubert's "Tex," even Dynamite's recent "Lone Ranger" title, old Marvel "Conan" books which somehow escaped me completely first time around and of which there is TONS of material, vintage Warren "Creepy," some ( not all) of the most recent James Bond miniseries, etc.

Anyway there are enough spoilers out there 24/7 that I can keep up with what the superheroes are doing without spending a penny. For instance now I know this whole marriage thing was a bust, anyway.

Good point about other material.

Heck, sometimes I'll enjoy the old Superman comics simply because everything was so condensed, in addition to the art ( I think Curt Swan) and innocent to a degree, feels like something was lost when it comes to the characters, something fun about Batman and Robin in those earlier issues.

I agree about the spoilers and information, i'll sometimes check things out from curiosity; unfortunately the cost of most comics as individual issues is way out of proportion to the reading time.

[SprangFan]

For better or for worse what were for children have now evolved for adults (though there are all ages versions of the character out there)

I'm not so sure the all-ages titles are a good thing. I wonder if most kids and their parents understand just from a glance that "this Batman comic is okay for Junior" but "this one is not." It's like having one magazine called "Playboy" with articles about toys little boys can play with and another of the same name but with nudie photos. It's just asking for trouble.