TO THE BATPOLES #152: Defining the Riddler w/Wally Wingert

[bat-rss]

The ’66 show is responsible for The Riddler’s prominence, but didn’t it also determine some specifics of the character? How he acts? How he dresses? How he talks? The show’s influence over how the Riddler was played lasted decades. In this episode, we’re joined by a voice actor who met Gorshin and has played several versions of the Riddler himself, Wally Wingert, to discuss these aspects of the Riddler, and explore the approach of his alter-ego, Frank Gorshin.

Plus, your mail about our discussion in episode 149 of Alan Napier’s memoir!

https://tothebatpoles.libsyn.com/152-de ... ly-wingert

[BATWINGED HORNET]

Interesting show, guys. Lots of great stories about Gorshin, and Wally's perceptions about the Riddler character. While I love his take as the Riddler, I am quite fond of Astin's version, as he has the air of a more self-confident villain, because he seemed so worldly and threatening, as opposed to manic like Gorshin's. In fact, he--and Lee Meriwether--are the only "replacement" actors from the Dozier productions who made their own strong (but good) impression. The same cannot be said for Preminger and Wallach's turns as Mr. Freeze.

About Shatner after Star Trek: he was still an in-demand actor appearing on stage and a large number of popular TV series of the era, such as The Virginian, The F.B.I., Ironside, Columbo, Marcus Welby M.D., Mission: Impossible, Kung Fu, Barnaby Jones, Mannix, Police Story, The Six Million Dollar Man, and a ton of TV movies (such as How the West Was Won and George C. Scott's The Andersonville Trial). He was also one of the leads of another TV series, the short-lived Barbary Coast (ABC, 1975-76).

It must be remembered that unlike West when cast as Batman, Shatner going into Star Trek was considered a coup for the production, as he was a highly regarded actor. Although he did face some typecasting post ST, he still had a strong reputation, hence his being cast on so many popular shows. So, post ST and pre-T.J. Hooker / ST movies, he was not largely relegated to game shows as implied, or suffered the same level of typecasting like a long list of ex-fantasy TV series actors.

Star Trek was taken seriously even as it struggled on NBC, but as it became a genuine cultural phenomenon in the early 70s, it was celebrated, and even studied as an important creative event instead of ridiculed. I vividly remember seeing Shatner at 70s conventions receiving rock star-like adulation, and this was about an actor from a TV series that had not been a one-time hit like Batman, so that says something about how he was viewed as a personality.

[Jimmy L. 66]

Great chat with Mr. Wingert. You fellows mentioned John Astin's "flexing while smelling the armpit" pose. I always thought he was making a question mark with his arm, am I the only one?

[Jimmy L. 66]

Also mentioned was the upcoming The Batman featuring Paul Dano as the riddler, but his mask is an Army surplus cold weather mask. Not the mentioned Duct tape. he is using Duct tape in the trailer, but I think on his victim.
Some boys over at the RPF had identified it, as well as most of the pieces of Batman's costume.
Fun episode.

[BATWINGED HORNET]

Oh, about animated Riddler appearances: while the 1968 Filmation Batman was not an adaptation of the '66 series, as you guys observed, Ted Knight's Riddler was an attempt to channel Gorshin, despite the fact the design of the villain was straight from the comics. Interesting mix of influences.

[High C]

Great show! Wally is such a terrific guest, so humble and down-to-earth for someone so talented.

However, I do agree with BWH on a couple of his points. I liked Astin's take on the character. Even though it doesn't measure up to Gorshin's overall, he had his moments. There is something threatening about him.

And as BatWinged Hornet alluded to, comparing Shatner's post-Trek career arc to Adam's post-Batman arc isn't quite valid. Yes, there were lulls, and some rough times, but Shatner worked very steadily, albeit as guest baddies of the week and in a lot of forgettable TV movies and quickly canceled series. But he worked, nonetheless. And, to be fair, same for Nimoy. If you check his Wikipedia page, and not only imdb, you'll find he did a lot of legitimate theater after Trek, both on Broadway and in, err, Londinium.

Some more housekeeping--Cliff Robertson won the Oscar AFTER Batman, not before. Charly was released in June 1968, post-Shame. One can make the argument that Robertson was the biggest star at the time to appear on the show, with perhaps, as much of a pain on the set in the rear as she was, Shelley Winters a close second.

I also would add, and you all know I am far from a Dozier apologist, that Frank's salary demands in season 2 put him in a tough position. If he raised Gorshin from $3,500 to $5K per arc, the equivalent today of going from $27,710 to $39,585 per https://www.bls.gov/data/inflation_calculator.htm, then the other major recurring villain actors would want similar raises. I also believe Dozier deserves credit for banking, pun intended, on Frank in the pilot in the first place. Burgess Meredith would have been the easy and safe choice for the pilot and premiere. But Frank proved to be the wild card that got the show immediate buzz, and the rest is history.

[Kamdan]

Great chat with Mr. Wingert. You fellows mentioned John Astin's "flexing while smelling the armpit" pose. I always thought he was making a question mark with his arm, am I the only one?

That or he’s trying to emulate the “thinking man” statue pose. Maybe he just wanted to flex his arm muscles that pops out due to his tights to show off his physique!

Oh, about animated Riddler appearances: while the 1968 Filmation Batman was not an adaptation of the '66 series, as you guys observed, Ted Knight's Riddler was an attempt to channel Gorshin, despite the fact the design of the villain was straight from the comics. Interesting mix of influences.

Ted Knight’s Riddler sounded more like Jerry Seinfeld than an attempt to channel Gorshin. I know Seinfeld wasn’t a thing then but Knight must have picked up the dialect he has and decided that was going to be his Riddler.

Frank Gorshin’s Riddler is part Richard Widmark (mostly facial expressions) and a LOT of Kirk Douglas. I noticed it when I saw Out of the Past in a film class and was instantly reminded of Gorshin’s cadence and demeanor as The Riddler. While it is true that Widmark never did that extreme high pitched giggle in Kiss of Death, Gorshin often said that laugh derived from his own laugh when he find something hysterical, an honest laugh, as he put it, since The Riddler was honestly evil, like Widmark was in the film. That combination made a well deserved Emmy nomination. I found myself slip into a Gorshin-esque in my acting roles. I was quite proud when I used it for a scene in a production of the Superman musical from 1966.

I get a bit annoyed about the whole story creation of The Riddler’s business suit was due to Gorshin insisting they make it due to his reluctance to wear tights. The Hi Diddle Riddle script featured on a previous episode specified that Riddler was wearing a double breasted suit with black question marks in his first on screen appearance with Mr. Peale. It made sense from a story perspective as he’s appearing as causal as he can be in this set-up. Later, when he’s with the Molehill Mob, he dons the comic inspired catsuit with mask to be more agile while committing crime. I’m sure the story really goes is that Gorshin preferred the business suit over the tights in later episodes, but it definitely was not created for his comfort. It was all Lorenzo Semple, just like how he actually wrote the line “What a terrible way to go-go,” which was not an ad-lib from Adam West. The set-up was clearly there from the start with the name of the discotheque.

The Riddler from Batman: The Animated Series was only featured in three episodes of the series. The creators of the show wanted to feature him more but they couldn’t come up with clever riddles to help drive the plots. They didn’t want to use, as Semple stated on his commentary for the Batman movie, to use nursery school riddles. I can’t recall hearing that Mark Hamill was inspired by the Blue Meanie from Yellow Submarine for his Joker. I’ve always heard it was Claude Rains as The Invisible Man. Not sure if you’ve covered this or not but Hamill channeled a lot of Gorshin for his performance as The Trickster in The Flash CBS TV series.

[Jimmy L. 66]

I have also heard Hamill say the Jokers "Slow build up " was based on Gorshin.

[Kamdan]

I have also heard Hamill say the Jokers "Slow build up " was based on Gorshin.

That’s so fun to do. I definitely did that when I performed my big scene in the Superman musical.

[bat-rss]

I get a bit annoyed about the whole story creation of The Riddler’s business suit was due to Gorshin insisting they make it due to his reluctance to wear tights. The Hi Diddle Riddle script featured on a previous episode specified that Riddler was wearing a double breasted suit with black question marks in his first on screen appearance with Mr. Peale. It made sense from a story perspective as he’s appearing as causal as he can be in this set-up. Later, when he’s with the Molehill Mob, he dons the comic inspired catsuit with mask to be more agile while committing crime. I’m sure the story really goes is that Gorshin preferred the business suit over the tights in later episodes, but it definitely was not created for his comfort. It was all Lorenzo Semple, just like how he actually wrote the line “What a terrible way to go-go,” which was not an ad-lib from Adam West. The set-up was clearly there from the start with the name of the discotheque.

Schooled again on the content of our own podcast! We'll have to listen to it sometime. lol
Seriously, thanks! I guess we can catalog "Gorshin requested the suit" alongside "There was almost a fourth season" and "Chandel was the highest-rated episode"....

[BATWINGED HORNET]

Okay, everyone knows about the reputation of the The National Enquirer, but to be fair, the tabloid has broken a number of stories before the American national news media (e.g., printing photos of O.J. Simpson wearing the crime scene associated Bruno Magli shoes he said he never owned during his trial / Rush Limbaugh's addiction to prescription painkillers--which the radio host once denied, but he eventually admitted the tabloid's story was true / uncovering racist audio recordings of reality TV washout "Dog the Bounty Hunter", etc.). So, the tabloid was not printing "Elvis Died and was Teleported to Saturn" kinds of stories all of the time.

That said, on the subject of West's typecasting, the following is from The National Enquirer from April of 1979--



Very sad and disturbing information, if accurate. Thankfully, he did pull himself out of that dark period.

[bat-rss]

Okay, everyone knows about the reputation of the The National Enquirer, but to be fair, the tabloid has broken a number of stories before the American national news media (e.g., printing photos of O.J. Simpson wearing the crime scene associated Bruno Magli shoes he said he never owned during his trial / Rush Limbaugh's addiction to prescription painkillers--which the radio host once denied, but he eventually admitted the tabloid's story was true / uncovering racist audio recordings of reality TV washout "Dog the Bounty Hunter", etc.). So, the tabloid was not printing "Elvis Died and was Teleported to Saturn" kinds of stories all of the time.

That said, on the subject of West's typecasting, the following is from The National Enquirer from April of 1979--



Very sad and disturbing information, if accurate. Thankfully, he did pull himself out of that dark period.

Quite believable. Thanks for posting!

[Dan E Kool]

Wally's performance as The Riddler in the Batman Arkham video games is one of my favorite Batman villains ever. I don't feel it's wrong to put it right up there with Gorshin's take on the character.

But that Gorshin impression from Wally? Sent chills down my spine! Heck, even his Adam West was spot-on. Great stuff.