TO THE BATPOLES #186: Why "The Joker Jury" was out

General goings on in the 1966 Batman World

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bat-rss
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TO THE BATPOLES #186: Why "The Joker Jury" was out

Post by bat-rss »

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As we know, many episodes of Batman — especially in the first season — were based on stories from the comics. And additional comics stories were floated as possible episodes but didn’t make the cut. This time, we focus on one such story: The Joker Jury, by Bill Finger and Sheldon Moldoff, originally appearing in Batman 163 (May 1964) and adopted into an unproduced treatment by Max Hodge, writer of the first two Mr. Freeze arcs of the show. What changes did Hodge make to the story and why? Why might this not have been produced?

Listen here

The Joker Jury comics story

The Joker Jury treatment
"I'm half-demented with whimsical outrage!"
-- The Joker, in a line cut from "The Joker's Epitaph"
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High C
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Re: TO THE BATPOLES #186: Why "The Joker Jury" was out

Post by High C »

About to listen, but the first thing I notice from the treatment is this (pardon me, mods):

NO SEXY DAME!!

I can envision steam coming out of Dozier's ears a la Messrs. Slate/Spacely and his fedora, if he is wearing one, flying off and hitting the ceiling in his office.

(He's also not enthused about the time in the makeup chairs to make the henchmen's faces and hair match Cesar's.)
'I thought Siren was perfect for Joan.'--Stanley Ralph Ross, writer of 'The Wail of the Siren'

My hobbies include gazing at the Siren and doing her bidding, evil or otherwise.

'She had a devastating, hypnotic effect on all the men.'--A schoolmate describing Joan Collins at age 17
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High C
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Re: TO THE BATPOLES #186: Why "The Joker Jury" was out

Post by High C »

After listening to it, these are my thoughts:

Don't ever stop saying NANANANANANA LAWSUIT!!! It's still funny.

Good observations on the lines of Finger's that Hodge changed and the ones he kept. As you noted, it does seem like a mashup of two ideas. Then again, season 2 was full of such arcs in which the part 2 villain objective had little to do with his/her part 1 caper. Think Impractical Joker, Catwoman Goes to College, etc.

In fact, I am surprised they didn't rewrite/develop this FOR season 2. It would've been an easier re-tooling, for instance, than the aforementioned Impractical Joker.

As for why it didn't cut the proverbial mustard for S1, as you say, there were a lot of other Joker stories in the hopper, and mostly more cohesive ones.

Other possible reasons:

1. As I noted before, a LOT of extra makeup would've been necessary. Time in the makeup chair costs money. Extras would've been needed for those longshots, even if, as you said, they cut to Cesar for the closeups.

2. Perhaps the jury concept cut too close to the Mad Hatter script, also in development, at least in the opinion of Dozier and Semple and maybe Horwitz.

3. Someone on the Bat-board once noted (and I'm not asking you to spend money w/Laramie, but I assure you, I'm told there is Dozier paperwork backing this up) that ABC was 'fast-tracking' the Mr. Freeze script. They liked the idea, they liked having Sanders, who was still a 'name,' and wanted it moved up in the rotation. Thus, Dozier and Semple would've wanted Max Hodge to focus his energies on re-writing that rather than on developing this any further.
'I thought Siren was perfect for Joan.'--Stanley Ralph Ross, writer of 'The Wail of the Siren'

My hobbies include gazing at the Siren and doing her bidding, evil or otherwise.

'She had a devastating, hypnotic effect on all the men.'--A schoolmate describing Joan Collins at age 17
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BATWINGED HORNET
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Re: TO THE BATPOLES #186: Why "The Joker Jury" was out

Post by BATWINGED HORNET »

As always, you guys deliver interesting shows! The Joker jury concept sort of proves that some ideas from the comics were just beyond being TV material. I had to pull Batman #163 to take another look, and the concept was too absurd for Hodge to really do anything with it. Think of it: Hodge, who crafted a coherent threat & truly sinister villain in Mister Freeze for TV (and Sanders had much to do with that, as well) was saddled with a silly one-off from the comics where the Duo are facing off (ultimately) against a pack of Jokers?

Even in the slightly "off" world of Dozier's Gotham City, the story would not work--unless the 1st season had been shaped to be more like the third, where all attempts to separate Batman from the kind of plotting one might find on a Peter Potamus cartoon were tossed out of Dozier's office window.

Its so interesting that issue #163 featured a house ad for Detective Comics #327--the first New Look appearance of the Bat-characters; to me, the ad--and considering how it represented the start of a major, evolutionary change from the simplistic work now discussed--makes me wonder how Greenway would have adapted comics well into the New Look era--or into the Robbins/Novick period? Without the lingering Golden Age goofiness of early Silver Age comics Dozier used as a source, would the mid-to-late 60s comics helped the series, or changed it for the better?
Beneath Wayne Manor
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